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High PR with no in-bound links!

How can this happen?

         

WilliamI

8:25 pm on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



How could a page get a PR of 8 without any in-bound links.

This page is from a competitor of one of our clients, and they are notorious for killing links to them on other sites. (I used to know an IT manager there who's staff was always on top of in-bound referals for legal purposes)

The only in-bound links are from their own ad banners which appear on very high PR sites like Yahoo... but the banners involve a redirect through the 3rd party banner server.

-confused-

jomaxx

9:03 pm on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hmmm. I don't see any reason why pagerank couldn't be passed through a banner ad, as long as it's served up server-side and not by Javascript (and as long as the redirecting server allows spidering). Something to think about.

incywincy

9:09 pm on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



doesn't the number of pages within a site contribute to page rank? is it a massive site?

do they have a relationship with google?

WilliamI

9:57 pm on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The site is big, but 90% of the content is to paid subscribers... therefor invisible to Google.

And yes, they do have a minor keyword advertising relationship with Google.

Which makes one wonder if PR can be bought.

jomaxx

10:06 pm on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It can't.

AcsCh

10:12 pm on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I looks like google follows redirections. I usually push the pagerank of new websites from my customers giving them a link from my well ranked main page.
This links all go via a redirect.php script for hitcounting, but google usually gives this new pages a pagerank just one under my main page, without having other pages linking to them, within one month or so.

Just besides, it is possible to allow google to spider paycontent by cloaking. If it's googlebot you allow to spider if it's a browser you redirect to the sign up page. There is another recent thread on this forum about that.

toddb

11:59 pm on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Do they show up as back links? I have a traffic script and it does not show up in back links if I link someone. I am a PR 6 site so they would normally show. Just curious if we can pass PR and not show the link?

WebGuerrilla

1:04 am on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member




Just because no backlinks for a site show up doesn't mean they don't exist. Google choses what links are visible.

snowfox121

1:21 am on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



That's right. i've seen this a few times. Hundreds of links, but none showing as backlinks.

I'm a bit puzzled by this competitor of yours with the reputation for killing inbound links. Is there some legal way that i can be prohibited from showing a link to xyz.com on my site? i'd be surprised if this was the case.

WilliamI

2:23 am on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Limiting in-bound links:

This is comon within the brokerage industry. These firms are paranoid about what is said about them, by whom, and what "representation" it may imply to the investing public. SEC lawsuits have begun on lesser cause.

On to the topic at hand...

It's beginning to look like PR can be "bought" by buying the right banner or text-link ads on high PR websites. If this is true... shouldn't this be something Google should prevent?

taxpod

2:31 am on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



At the risk of asking about the obvious, when you are on this high PR page with no inbound links, have you checked to see if the page is cached?

Another angle on this is say this site has a bunch of pages with heavy inbound links and all of them link to the home page, this could account for high PR on the home page.

But you say this page has no inbound links. In other words this home page is not listed on DMOZ, Yahoo, etc? Does the page show up in Google with keyword searches?

Can you sticky me the URL because I'd like to see this.

pmac

2:42 am on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Did you check to see if the the domain has inbounds counted by Fast?

jomaxx

4:49 am on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have trouble believing we're hearing the whole story here. Zero inbound links except for banner ads? Come on. Mention the competitor's name here and I bet there are 50 people who could tell you exactly why the site has whatever PR it has.

WilliamI

1:44 pm on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Sorry folks... tight business category... I'm very concerned that the name, if mentioned here, may come up in searches.

I've since found some links to the high PR page on some still-active link farms. It doesn't explain everything, but it's beginning to make sense. As a matter of fact, the link farm page I found is seemingly being very risky, containing links for major sites in amongst the crop.

Interesting.

jomaxx

6:03 pm on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That's a helluva link farm if it boosted them to PR8.

taxpod

7:42 pm on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



What we're saying, WilliamI, is that your story sounds inconsistent with everything we've come to know about PR. Based on what you've said, it sounds like some sort of fluky guessed at PR. But I haven't seen a lot of guessed PR8 pages so I'm wondering.

Please sticky me the domain name and I'll keep it to myself. I just want to see this apparently very strange animal. I promise I won't divulge your secret.

WebWalla

9:34 pm on Jan 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It's entirely possible that this site has just 1 link from a PR9 page with no other links on it, which would most likely give it PR8. Google won't show just 1 link with the backlinks search, although of course this will show up with a search for "domain.com"

ciml

1:56 pm on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



WebWalla, as long as both URLs are at least PR4 I think you'd see the backlink even if it's the only one.

It may just be that the high PR link is to an internal page; so although it could pass PR around the site, it might be hard to find.

jomaxx

4:40 pm on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Specifically WilliamI was complaining that "the only in-bound links are from their own ad banners which appear on very high PR sites like Yahoo". So there ARE links showing.

My prediction is that if he ever reveals tha name of this PR8 site, it will turn out to have over 1,000 inbound links and we'll realize there is no really mystery to solve. I surfed around and found a few PR8 sites among brokerage-type sites that advertise on Yahoo, and they all have well in excess of a thousand links reported on Google.

born2drv

7:34 pm on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I think you guys may all be missing the obvious. Perhaps many of their deeper content pages have good inbound links. This will not show in their backlinks of the home page.

If they have 20 PR8 links to deeper pages, and these pages all point to the main page, then the main page could very well get PR8 while showing no backlinks, other than internal links within the site. And if they all have the same title or similar content, Google doesn't even show them all.... maybe 1 page, so it can be very deceiving.

[edit]woops: looks like ciml beat me to it ;)[/edit]

rfgdxm1

7:41 pm on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I'd find it hard to believe that a site with a PR8 home page would have NO backlinks to that at all, even if the internal pages have some high inbound backlinks.

taxpod

8:00 pm on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The high PR internal pages should show up in the backlinks and if they are that high, that would explain the "mystery."

takagi

8:40 pm on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have reason to believe that searching on Alexa with 'link:www.mysite.com' shows all the inbound links that Google knows, and not only the ones with PR4 (or sometimes 3) and higher. After all, Alexa is powered by G., so that is where the data is coming from.

So please try to see if there are lots of low PR links to this mystery page.

rfgdxm1

9:12 pm on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>I have reason to believe that searching on Alexa with 'link:www.mysite.com' shows all the inbound links that Google knows, and not only the ones with PR4 (or sometimes 3) and higher.

Nope. In fact, Alexa is showing even less links to my main site's home page than Google.

takagi

10:57 pm on Jan 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yes, rfgdxm1, you are right.

I tested it only with small sites (PR5 and lower) and there it seemed to work for links from other sites. It looks Alexa always filters links from the same site. But also some links from other sites with PR4+ are filtered :(. Strange.

But WilliamI can still try to find out what it does on this mystery page. The data that IS displayed is supposed to come from Google.

Jimmie

2:33 am on Jan 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have to say I have been trying to figure out my competitors for some time now, because they appear to have almost nothing in backlinks in google..I've used other tools to see their links and they add up to nothing in PR etc...and for the keywords I compete with them for, they don't even have the keywords anywhere on there page...this is true for more than one of my competitors...and I've seen it for other categories...in fact, a few sites have e-mailed me for a link and when I go to check out their PR to see if I want a link from them, they have low PR, few, and not good, backlinks yet rank on first page of google SERP for very competitive keywords....

I think this is a mystery that needs to be solved...and I don't think we should assume we are missing something...I have delved and delved for an explanation.....and can't find one...and I'll sticky the name of my competitor if someone wants to try to explain to me how they got their ranking....

Jimmie

2:38 am on Jan 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



oh, and the keyword phrase is not in their title or description...one of the words is though..."baby" that's a highly competitive word, I hardly think that should bring them up for say hypothetically, "baby diapers" if diapers is not in their tile, description, or page content..and they have only 28 backlinks, dmoz, google directory, 2 more not so great links and their own internal links....