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Crosslinking, stealth, hidden text, backlinks, PR, penalties, sucking up to GG, whatever, its a sorry situation.
For better or worse, Google has managed do create a SE monopoly. Like any monopoly, it is subject to obuse. Don't know why you've been penalized? Don't know if you've been penalized? Don't know why spammers seem to prevail in the index and Lilly white web sites can't get into the top 100? Get a life! You can't get something for nothing.
Why do you think Adworks was created? Penny wise pound foolish. Spend a few cents to nail down your keywords and quit worrying about filters, algorithms, tattletales, unscrupulous competitors. I don't like it any more than you do but its reality.
First up, in my cats the cost of a visitor using adwords is currently over $5.00 each for number one spot and over $3.00 each for number 7 spot....not really pennies. My cat has very high ticket items, average $200K per sale.
Secondly Adwords only generates 5% of all traffic when used. I have tried it, purely to test its popularity, and it isn't popular. Prospects like "true" search results because they believe those are the relevant sites, they know the sponsored listings have paid to be there, and use the logic that they must be less relevant, otherwise why are they paying?
We all know the above statement isn't always true, but I have to assume this is how the punters think or I can't come up with a good reason why the true search results are selected so much more than the Adwords listings.
On MSN, where the sponsored listings are not so clearly seperated from true search results, I see the Overture sponsors achieving least traffic, the Looksmart Sponsors do well (because MSN doesn't make it clear they are paying 15 cents per click) and then the web pages (true results) follow. I believe if MSN is made to show that the "Web Directory Sites" (Looksmart sponsors) were in fact PPC sites that those numbers would decrease considerably and people would head straight for the "web pages" section of true Inktomi results.
I refuse to use Adwords for a very simple reason. Average of $4.50 per visitor, it takes an average of 500 visitors to make a sale for my cat, the cost per sale using adwords = $2,250....the average Gross Profit per sale is $3,500...but in true search results the cost of a visitor is 10 cents, average cost to make a sale becomes $50 verses $2,250 for Adwords....which would you aim for?
True Google search results are a very cheap form of traffic, and the only way to maximize traffic, everyone wants that :)
I belive most webmasters/SEO's on this forum know that gross profit is maximized using true search results, that is what they aim to achieve and they "whine" whenever they see unfair play because they know it is costing them money!
Don't get me wrong, I personally don't have much time for the "whiners", if others are going to take their gloves off to fight then if you want to remain competitive you need to be prepared to do the same thing. But running to Adwords for a solution simply isn't viable given the huge chunk of GP it consumes.
I'm sure in less competitive cats Adwords can be profitable to a greater degree, but for me I would rather get out of the industry than give such a large portion of GP to Google. Net profit would be miniscule using Adwords because of the high cost of advertising and low percentage of total traffic it delivers.
Achieving true search positions is hugely profitable, the true SEO's here are always going to fight for it :)
If I advertise on Adworks will my page rank go up or down?
If I advertise on Adworks will my index ranking go up or down?
Why doesn't Google provide a link to describe a site's ranking, penalties, removal, etc?
Can an SE and a Directory (ODP) co-exist fairly?
What were the factors behind the rise and fall of Yahoo?
Why pursue a business model that is based on something as seemingly arbitrary as an SE ranking?
While those are all legitimate questions, they are also each worthy of their own thread. Lets try and keep this thread about your original questions/comments about using Adwords.
If I advertise on Adworks will my page rank go up or down?
If I advertise on Adworks will my index ranking go up or down?
Why doesn't Google provide a link to describe a site's ranking, penalties, removal, etc?
Can an SE and a Directory (ODP) co-exist fairly?
What were the factors behind the rise and fall of Yahoo?
Why pursue a business model that is based on something as seemingly arbitrary as an SE ranking?
>If I advertise on Adworks will my page rank go up or down?
NO
>If I advertise on Adworks will my index ranking go up or down?
No affect at all.
>Why doesn't Google provide a link to describe a site's ranking, penalties, removal, etc?
If you lay out all the rules you encourage cheating.
>Can an SE and a Directory (ODP) co-exist fairly?
Yes. This is worth 20 pages, but the basic answer is still yes.
>What were the factors behind the rise and fall of Yahoo?
Need 20 pages to answer this one...try a separate thread after you do a little research of your own! As a starter don't assume Yahoo has fallen that far!
>Why pursue a business model that is based on something as seemingly arbitrary as an SE ranking?
Money can be made from an SE ranking.
Nope. It's just another google.
FlameOut - Adworks produces less traffic than normal good rankings. If you want you can pay me to worry about algorithms and I'll set up an affiliate site dedicated for you :)
MHes, if this is true, can you please tell me, where i can find all the portal services at google like those at Yahoo?
IMHO Yahoo is still a fully independant big player - and one more that uses google (still). Or do you think AOL is also just another google?
;)
You are right.
But in respect of search engine optimisation do they matter anymore?
(another thread somewhere else perhaps?!)
