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I have recently noticed a single webmaster who has managed to finagle hundreds of thousands of listings through a cross linking system - and the use of third level domain names to build those links up. I suspect that googlebot has a feeding frenzy when it gets to one of these sites, they all cross link to other sites on other domains, which cross link again, and so on. Literally a web of hundreds of thousands of pages. Worse, visiting any listing is a redirect to a sales page for a membership type site.
I was wondering how this is possible without google seeing how distructive this all is? I would post an example here, but I don't want to offend the forum. I ask the question as a more hypothetical, as a result.
Thanks
Alex
This has been going on for at least a couple of months, and presumably has been reported to Google many times. One hopes and trusts the algorithm tuning will eventually weed this stuff out.
Definitely going to generate enough heat to melt the polish on the webmaster's shoes.
I reported many times a huge network of sites that redirect ONLY if you click the listings at the google result pages directly. In other words: the servers only redirect if they receive a referer that is a google search result url. If you type in the url directly, you'll get a error message saying "... we are redesigning our site ... come back soon ..."
If google visits them, they feed 'em with hundreds of thousands generated keyword pages.
This seems very difficult for google to spot. :(
Each of those gifs are cross-linked to a page on one of the other sites. Look ma, instantly manufactured linking ;) .... and as recently as Nov update, appearing with respectable rankings just as bold as brass. Haven't checked Dec
Now why do we occasionly sound a bit cynical?
... and the use of third level domain names to build those links up...
Shouldn't the size of the problem make the fix on google's side pretty easy?
I would think that a google internal query for the ratio of pages vs. IP together with the count of links would reveal the biggest 'offenders' pretty quickly.
From the sounds of it, your find of hundreds of thousands of pages turning up would lead me to file a spam report, especially in this case you are describing. Remember to mention WebmasterWorld in the spam report as GoogleGuy mentioned it might get looked at a little differently knowing that it was somebody from the boards here.
austtr...sounds like something I used to do before I learned that it was stupid...except I used to use a period for the link :) Been cleaning pages ever since
I'm scared already GoogleGuy, not of your vulgar display of power, but of you and your monopoly - no need to come here and show everyone you can destroy the works of others with ease, we all know that and FEAR your EXECUTION.
No use standing outside with anti-reporting signs while it happens but it's important that I come here, just like anti-death penalty protesters, and publicly state my disgust for you people reporting sites to Google.
Google is a company, for Christ's sake why are you working for them?
Go make your own money and stop this killing right now, please I beg you to stop destroying our own business working for google for free!
Please realise the moment they sell their shares GoogleGuy and friends will loose control and all of us will be left with adwords for life - and those of you reporting other SEO's, as bad as spammers can be, Google is not an open source non-profit organization IT IS A CORPORATION, THEY WORK FOR MONEY NOT FOR YOUR KARMA - please note we'll be sucking thumbs once Google goes PPC and ...why did we do this to each other?
If you have ANY self respect stop this reporting.
I agree spammers have to go but it's a job for Google not for us.
KILLING SPAM IS A JOB FOR GOOGLE NOT FOR US - THEY'RE NOT THE GOVERNMENT, THEY'RE A FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION.
Can you understand "FOR PROFIT" and "CORPORATION"?
Remember, you might be next and many are innocent - I've been penalized for nothing, wrote Google and saw my site with a blank PR bar right back in, no apologies, just a blank PR that took years to build.
PLEASE stop this, I can't even imagine putting myself in the shoes of these people you're ratting on, it must hurt too much to be stabbed by other webmasters working for FREE for CORPORATE INTERESTS.
Please! I AM BEGGING.
[edited by: NFFC at 10:16 am (utc) on Jan. 3, 2003]
[edit reason] Not here [/edit]
Google is a company, for Christ's sake why are you working for them
Because as a surfer it frustrates me when I have to dig down past 100's of pages all from the same site to find what I am looking for.
Spammers and cheats are thieves and deserve everything they get.
Certain industries are littered with this type of spamming and cheating as we are all referring to it as. I believe the domains in question have been wiped out almost completely. From 222,560 backlinks to 0 in 24 hours. In that particular industry, there are now 222,560 new links from another network of sites.
It's an ongoing battle for the SE's. That network of sites that is being referred to chewed a gaping hole right through Google's algo. It's unfortunate that their filters cannot pick up this type of setup.
What does that mean? Well, that same person will just pull another domain out of their hat, move to different IP's and most likely start again. For them, it's a game of chance.
Me too!
But it's not a job for us.
When this happens go give FAST, Lycos, Altavista a try!
Why work for Google?
This leads exactly to the monopoly Google is holding. Think about it!
I'm annoyed by spam as well! But we have excellent choices and working for companies to help them destroy us is not one of them! A LOT of innocent people are suffering from this. A LOT.
It's not a job for us, it is a job for Google. When you see poor results if you report instead of giving other engines a chance you're being an agent for monopoly.
It is a job for Google. Give other engines a chance instead of ratting on competition next time! Why not? We'll be helping ourselves - otherwise in a very near future we won't have a choice anymore!
Who wants this monopoly and GoogleGuy as the ultimate judge? Look there:
1 I don't know if this guy REALLY was a spammer. OR DID HE ONLY FAIL TO BUY ADWORDS? GOOGLE IS A CORPORATION, NOT YOUR BEST FRIEND.
2 I don't know if he got a proper trial, did he EVER have right for self defense? Will he be corresponded if he writes in with self defense? (In your dreams. How many of you have been replied to regarding spam?) (Whatever spam is...it seems you can be banned for just about anything...)
3 WHAT EXACTLY ARE THE RULES?
4 How can you trust a company where one guy decides to drop people like that?
Look, he came here, asked for your free labour and destroyed the guy's site without any proper judgement whatsoever....he may be right this time, but how many innocents has he killed in this fashion?
I AM PUBLICLY BEGGING ALL PROFESSIONALS IN THIS BOARD TO PLEASE STOP REPORTING SPAM.
GIVE OTHER ENGINES A CHANCE, THEY DESERVE IT. WHEN YOU FIND SPAM TRY IT AT ALTAVISTA AND LYCOS AT LEAST. If they both fail then I agree with you reporting spam at Google. Deal?
A spam report does not mean an innocent site is banned. It just means that it MAY get a human review or some sort of auto review. If those checks confirm it is a spam some action is taken.
Spam reports may be good for google - a for profit corporate as you say - but they are also good for the user. And if the spam is in a site competitive to you, it may also help you too.
Just because a company is a for profit, should not mean we shouldnt help them improve.
don't get a great deal from lycos either, but get plenty from google.
google may well lose it's grip on the search engine market, especially since yahoo has bought inktomi. and if inktomi or another engine becomes the market leader in the way google is now, spam reports will go to them instead of google or as well as google.
I am protesting the public execution of a site without right to self defence.
i don't work for Google, period. All I want is to give other engines a chance today so I am not at the mercy of GoogleGuy. I have pride and work hard and I've been hurt once.
As much traffic as they send me today I know they can throw the switch on me anytime.
Dear Comrade psoares.
So now the point of your "no report manifesto for the proletariat" is to reduce google's monopoly comrade? I really do doubt, no matter how you resent the level of their market share, that it will make much differnce. Google does still contain a lot of spam, but other search engines do as well, generally much much more.
The best thing of course would be to report them to all search engines. Some do have their own methods for receiving spam reports.
There are very few who would go to the effort of spam reports out of the goodness of their heart. Many would report competitors. Google realises this and Im sure just sees a spam report as a tag for further investigation, especially if there are many for the same sites, or if other methods tag them as well, or they are using the same methods as other sites, meaning Google can imporve their algo to ban or penalise a lot of sites at the same time.
Most of the complanits at the google update threads read like "google's algo is terrible". Google is at least giving those people a chance to particpate in improrving it.
[edited by: chiyo at 3:33 am (utc) on Jan. 3, 2003]
Here's my practical proposal.
Situation : You have found what you judge to be "SPAM".
Step 1: Try the search on Altavista and Lycos.
If satisfactory, great - mission complete.
If still spammy THEN we have the opinion of 2 other competing engines, yes this guy has to GO. Go to step 2.
Step 2: Report spam.
How difficult can it be to do this before reporting spam? The opinions of other people and other companies are just as valid, why does Google have to be police, judge and executioner?
And I disagree with you - a lot of searches in the new Altavista and Lycos.com(FAST) look GREAT!
Make it clear - My rant is about
1 - No possibility of self-defense.
2 - Absolutely unclear rules.
3 - Fear of a Google monopoly.
It can be your site next.
They reply within hours, a real person, not a robot.
And they make their rules clear, they tell you "this is unacceptable, sorry" or, as in my case, "we made a mistake, your site is back up"
Within hours.
google's site says very clearly that attempts to deceive and manipulate search engine results (ie by cloaking) will lead to a ban. the sites setting up the 200,000+ crosslinked pages state quite clearly that they are cloaking.
no need for a trial. they are guilty as charged.
[edited by: NFFC at 10:18 am (utc) on Jan. 3, 2003]
Similar to other search engines, though there are some instances on this board of people reporting they have had success in defending a ban to google, though admittedly difficult.
2 - Absolutely unclear rules.
Same as other search engines.
3 - Fear of a Google monopoly.
There are other far more positive ways to reduce your fear. Encourage other search engines to get better. Put links on your sites to search engines that you think are better. Patience! The Y!/Ink deal may presage new competition for Google, and other SE SERPS, as you say, are getting much better. Heck even Inktomi is looking great right now. Try a new domain with Google, as obviously you have given up with your current domains.
Channel your fear positively comrade!
And they make their rules clear, they tell you "this is unacceptable, sorry" or, as in my case, "we made a mistake, your site is back up"
<<
Ive heard that. Its a great service obviously. Though made easier as Fast would have far less emails. If Fast was of the size of google, I wonder whether that service would decrease?
Hoever hats off to Fast.
We do the same thing here. From the
Google News Forum Charter [webmasterworld.com]
this is what's unacceptable here:
Off Topic:
SPAM reporting issues.If you have spam to report, please report it to Google. We are not the Google spam reporting system or the place to "shop the competition" knowing that Google techs may read it. Posting someone elses url is no different than violating them by posting their name and address. That includes posting of Google search terms.
For that same reason: please No site review requests or site review questions for Google techs.
For spam reporting, use searchquality@google.com. Be very brief in your email with Google. Report both the actual search keywords and explain the problem briefly.
Please remember this forum is frequented by many of the top SEO professionals and is the oldest established Google forum on the internet. Before posting the first time, please take time to read back through some of the threads and get a feel for the level we are at here.
News and discussion for the advanced web professional
THAT is what we're supposed to be about here.
Do we want a to be watering hole for gripers, amateurs and malcontents out for vengeance, tattletales and whiners who bounce in and out to air their gripes when they're being beaten in the SERPs, or do we want to belong to and participate in a genuine community of long-term members where webmasters and SEO professionals gather to discuss relevant and timely issues among themselves.
Which level do we prefer and find most enriching to our lives?
Unfortunately, if i do this, and if i encourage others to do this i am only slitting my own throat.
Google has the best algo and provides the best results. Google has me #6 for Widgets. MSN has me about 150th. Altavista has me #75. Ahead of me in both engines are a bunch of obsolete sites, some not changed in 3 years. My placement in these other engines rarely changes. This is typical of many other engines. (AllTheWeb is an exception, i think. i see positive things there.)
Am i going to encourage my users to go to Altavista? Not likely.
If i'm trying to make the world a more democratic place, change the structure of capitalism or "spread the wealth," then other engines are great.
If I want results and hits on my site, Google is it.
