Forum Moderators: open
I have recently noticed a single webmaster who has managed to finagle hundreds of thousands of listings through a cross linking system - and the use of third level domain names to build those links up. I suspect that googlebot has a feeding frenzy when it gets to one of these sites, they all cross link to other sites on other domains, which cross link again, and so on. Literally a web of hundreds of thousands of pages. Worse, visiting any listing is a redirect to a sales page for a membership type site.
I was wondering how this is possible without google seeing how distructive this all is? I would post an example here, but I don't want to offend the forum. I ask the question as a more hypothetical, as a result.
Thanks
Alex
I find your post very informative, disturbing, but informative...
You state that we don't want to be a place for whiners, etc. I agree. BUT, people exchanging ideas on how to deal with people that are clearly breaking the rules, are all of these people whiners? I have been told not to whine about spam several times on this board,and to work on my site instead, many board members have accused me of complaining because I am getting beat.
Guess what, I'm not getting beat, I'm in the top 4 for the top half dozen of the biggest "money phrases" in my industry, I'm doing great. I am still upset that some of my competitors have abused their dmoz editor status, I still am going to report the guy with hundreds of doorway pages and mirrors. The google algo can't catch everything, and even if it did, the cheaters would just find another way around it anyway. I think that there is room on this board for those who want to share ideas about how to fight against this.
I have personally enjoyed researching dmoz editors and linking them to spam/abuse, reporting them and watching them be removed. I am currently developing a pretty comprehensive report that is going to reveal even more of this.
I think that google, or any SE for that matter, does it's best to filter out abuse with software, BUT there is a point where human review could clean up what's left. Common sense would tell you that hundreds of doorway pages and domain names, is not within the rules, are you suggesting that those of us who have decided to take action, are somehow doing something wrong? Am I a whiner because I report abusive dmoz editors? Am I wrong for compiling lists of mirror sites and reporting it to Y! directory?
I just don't understand how moderators and members of this board can honestly post that people should not be reporting things that are clearly wrong. I know that Brett said that the board does not defend or condone spamming, but every time the issue comes up, there are an equal number of posts basically saying, stop whining, develop more content, etc.
I have said it before and I will say it again, I am fighting spam, reporting spammers to the directories and to google, I'm not getting beat in the SERPS, I'm not whining, I'm winning. Also, I am not even confined to just my areas of business. It has become a hobby of mine to hunt dmoz editors :) I'm not afraid to say it, you can remove my site from dmoz, I don't really care if it's listed there anyway.
I think that there is room for:
News and discussion for the advanced web professional
discussing how to get rid of those who chose to break the rules.
Remember this, if you decide to try and cheat the system, there is a good chance that you will be taken out.
Hey brett, how's that for what goes around comes around?
my3cents
Big people talk and think about new ideas.
Average people talk and think about things
Small people talk and think about other people.
Run! Small people invaded the Internet.
If you were competing with someone with almost 1/4 million backlinks, what would you do? Perhaps complain, perhaps not. Either way the right place to complain is at google.
It's not just about the "reporter" of the spam, someone is going to suffer consequences too. Who is to say that by removing someones 1/4 million backlinks will improve the SERP's? There could be even worse spam that just doesnt rank as well sitting below it.
Surely no one would like it if i considered their site spam and decided to talk about it here.
WW is not a middle man for reporting spam, that i can say ........but the 1/4 million links leaves me speechless ;)
And now, could we get back to the topic of this thread? (I'm one of the members who finds it very interesting, and it's nice to find a number of intelligent posts tucked in between the accusations of whining and the rants.)
I was at a trade show a few years ago where a company was showing off their technology, and showed the audience / onlookers how they had 415,000 pages indexed in Google.
Yes, the stuff got nuked. They were kind of silly showing it off that was, at InternetWorld in New York.
But - point being, people have done worse - will do worse yet. The way to make Google a better search engine - if that's what you want to do on your free time -> is to report them there.
Not here. It's against the rules, and it gets old. Fast.
I have software that will do the same thing. Auto generate tons of pages. It's not hard. To create 200,000 backlinks would take me less than a day. And, i'm not a programmer. I just dabble cause i'ts fun & useful, aside from being good for business.
Now, suppose I go create 1,000,000 of those things. What did I just do? Created a bunch of spam perhaps a reason for people to go around,!@#$# and moaning about how I have so many spam pages out there.
But - the fact is, that's not going to do my business any good at all, because those things are transitory. This, I know. At one point, an optimizer who I have a lot of respect for, said, "throw away domains are like candles burning at both ends...bright for a time, but gone twice as fast" Oh, so true.
The advice that Brett gave is indeed the best. What a great idea:
Pretty soon, you have a run away success. Add some interaction, community - the things the web was built for and you have yourself a home run.
People talk. It's what they do. For everybody that gets good service someplace, they might tell 1 person. If your site is just that good and interesting people will talk about it. Give 'em a reason to. Respond to their needs.
After a while, you won't care what some joker did with a quarter million backlinks and a few domains to spam an engine for a few months. They'll get caught. Google has algorithms most of us don't have the math skills to comprehend.
We are a great community here, and I thoroughly enjoy the discourse, and firmly believe it is the great community that Google is here for. They aren't here to listen about spam -> they're here to make sure that their product is good, and that they continue making a great product.
Forget about the spam. Concentrate on what you love -> if it's writing great content, do it.
If it's building more and more interelated sites -> go for it.
If it's spamming the hades out of every crawler out there -> have fun while you do it -> but take it from me: I know those things won't last. Even if somebody hadn't mentioned that site, Google would have caught on eventually.
.02 cents. From a guy who's created enough spam to know what search engine spam is.
Ratting
v. rat·ted, rat·ting, rats
v. intr.To hunt for or catch rats, especially with the aid of dogs.
Slang. To betray one's associates by giving information: ratted on his best friend to the police.
Slang. To work as a scab laborer.
'nuff said.
Nick
In the absence of peer self regulation as you find in professional organizations from law to medicine to psychology and even ( perish the thought!) advertising, I would have thought that reporting spam reflects a professionalism of a SEO that shows an interest in the credibility of the industry as a whole. Especially if its not always targeted against direct competitors.
Disclaimer is I'm not a SEO professional nor have I used spam reporting yet.
"Do we want a to be watering hole for gripers, amateurs and malcontents out for vengeance, tattletales and whiners who bounce in and out to air their gripes when they're being beaten in the SERPs"
Marcia, as you well now the likes of Google, FAST et al monitor this forum and others purely to listen to the noise and improve their algo's. If theres noise about backlinks then no doubt they'll use that to the benefit of jo blo surfer and tweak whatever it is they tweak.
Where else are they going to pick up "the word on the street" other than here. I'm all for gripers, amateurs and malcontents out for vengeance as much like politics much juicy stuff can be buried in these posts. My 2 cents ;)
People trying to misuse this forum for reporting are not welcome and reporting will not be tolerated.
90% or more of the reporting going on is quite simply business. In highly competitive industries this is common practice, or so I'm told.
It has nothing to do whatsoever with altruistic motives like improving results or making for a better users experience.
It's business.
Webmasterworld is not for doing business.
WebmasterWorld is for helping each other.
WebmasterWorld is not for reporting each other.
