Forum Moderators: open

Message Too Old, No Replies

PageRank - Just trying to understand a bit more

         

stcrim

10:47 pm on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Let's say you have a gourmet candy shop in a small city. The chances of having larger better PR sites linking to you are slim to none.

But your product is relevant to the seach (and may be the best candy in the world)

If page rank is based largly on quality links, how will this candy store ever get found?

PageRank seems to be squarely in favor of big businesses. It seems by the very nature of PR that is doen't always produce the most relevant results but rather most endowed web sites. (this is not a criticism, I love Google and am just trying to learn more)

Most car dealerships have a PR of 1 to 3, but aren't they really a 10 for their product in their area?

-s-

HarryM

11:17 pm on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



stcrim,

I think you have made a good point. I am now looking to add more incoming links to my site and increase my PR. But mine is a non-commercial site with little to offer in return. So it's proving difficult :(

If I were your hypothetical candy store I would definitely be suffering.

On the other hand, because I am out of the main stream, on certain keywords I have little competition and I am often within the top few results. So to some extent the low PR is not a problem.

Relating this to the small business, the only answer would be to go for niche terms that the big boys would not be targeting.

2_much

11:21 pm on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I agree but what I love about the web, and Google in particular, is that you can always get creative. So that candy store owner has the opportunity to compete with See's if they get very creative and get links in unconventional ways.

Another key aspect of this are the keywords. Even if they have a low pagerank, because their keywords will be regional, they are likely to rank well. I optimize a site for a meditation center in Los Angeles and we get great traffic with a 4 PR (I haven't had much time to work on it) based on the regional keywords.

So I think that it does work out to be a somewhat even playing field. Except for Froogle.

rmjvol

11:30 pm on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Most car dealerships have a PR of 1 to 3, but aren't they really a 10 for their product in their area?

Yes, and a search for "Podunkville Car Dealer" will probably be dominated by sites with PR1-3. I'd be surprised to see anything higher than that if it's a really small town/dealership. PR is important but it's not the be-all end-all to ranking well.

On a non-regional basis, you'll either need to add PR or target much tighter focused kw's or both.

...even playing field. Except for Froogle.

I think it's a little early for any slams. From what I hear, it's pretty new & still in beta.

rmjvol

HarryM

11:39 pm on Dec 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



2_much

Regional keywords are fine if you can use them. But if you are selling via mail order then they probably aren't too helpfull.

However I think Google is doing the right thing. It may be tough on the small candy store, but most customers are probably looking for major players with a wide product range and quick despatch service, etc. So by prioritizing the high rankers Google is probably providing what its users want.

Dante_Maure

2:02 pm on Dec 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Let's say you have a gourmet candy shop in a small city. The chances of having larger better PR sites linking to you are slim to none.

Not so, you just need to think outside the box.

Even the smallest business can be worthy of attention from major media sources and groups with enormous reach both online and off. You just need a hook.

Here are just a few examples of high PR sites and how you can earn a link from them...

  • Local Universities - A discount offered to all students.

  • Business Associations - Become an active member.

  • Charitable Organizations - Donate product for fund raisers.

  • Membership Sites - Offer free product as a prize for a sweepstakes with automatic entry to all that register as a member.

  • Major Media - Pull a publicity stunt. (Local media coverage is a piece of cake. Nationwide is only a bit tougher with the right hook)

  • Affinity Sites - Write articles. Get reviewed.

    The opportunities are practically endless, you just need to look through an open lens.

  • John_Caius

    2:18 pm on Dec 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



    PR doesn't necessarily relate well to the size of the business/organisation as it is very dependent on optimisation and also whether a site has been around long enough to get decent incoming links.

    Lots of personal-type sites have PRs of 4, 5 and sometimes 6. A few PR 5 links will help your site PR a lot and make you more competitive.

    Also don't bother competing for the biggest keyword if that's dominated by major companies. Go for less common keywords that you can rank highly for. Being position 100 for 'candy' will likely get you no traffic, whilst being position 8 for 'chocolate-covered brazil nuts' might get you more.

    Build up your content so that your site gets hit by lots of different keywords, rather than relying on one or two for all your traffic.

    jimbeetle

    4:11 pm on Dec 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



    Did a search for "gourmet candy store" on Google and it basically shows that PR is *only one factor* in ranking results and that being small doesn't mean you won't be found. In fact, See's and other well known candy folks are not on the first page while local shops, a tripod site and yahoo stores are.

    PR for pages (not including 2nd DMOZ page) is 3, 5, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 3, 4. Most have very few discernable external links.

    For 7 sisters from Scottsdale to rank #3 out of a universe of about 111,000 ain't too shabby. Check out their very keyword rich page.

    And when you add the city name to the search the three local shops jump to number 1, as would be expected.

    This might not be the best example but it does show that being small and local does not mean you won't be found. The competitiveness of the keywords is a factor, PR is a factor and all of those on-page criteria are factors.

    Kind of forgot exactly where I was going with this, but you get the idea.

    Jim

    MeditationMan

    5:19 pm on Dec 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

    10+ Year Member



    If page rank is based largly on quality links, how will this candy store ever get found?

    stcrim:

    You'll get found because you're relevant for the searches "gourmet candy mycity" or "gourmet chocolate mycity", etc -- whatever your pagerank. If pagerank was the only factor involved in the search engine results then Microsoft would be in the top ten for every search you did.

    Your competition for these targeted searches is not sites with PR10, it's the other candy stores in your area. And you have exactly the same chances of getting sites to link to you as they have.

    [edited by: MeditationMan at 7:41 pm (utc) on Dec. 13, 2002]

    bokesch

    6:29 pm on Dec 13, 2002 (gmt 0)



    I think a situation like this would call for the Adwords Select option. It's pretty cheap and you can have your site come up on every page every time....however, I'm not trying to advertise for Google. I've just had good results from it, thats all.