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From #3 on Google to #65 in 3 months!

Informative site looses placement.

         

Pacific

6:33 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Amazing! At one time, I could write the opposite of the above!

I would appreciate any suggestions WHY this site went from #3 in August on Google.com down to about #65 presently (today).

No major changes were done to the site.
The home page is optimised for "toenail fungus", a heavily-searched-for word.
Visitors went from over 200/day down to about 30/day now.

MSN still lists it high (#1 on websites).
True, there are few links TO the site.
It was #3 or so for about 4 months on Google.

The homepage is pure informative content about the subject.
Which is exactly what the SE's want, I thought. The sales pitch comes at the end of the page.

It's still a mystery why it jumped so quickly down, and so far.

Could someone (competition?) have "over-submitted" or "over-reported by WPG"?

The damage has been done.
The big question now is, WHAT to do about it.
<snip>

We have secured a new domain name and am thinking of relocating the whole site to the new domain name and doing the corresponding promotion, from the start.

What would be best?
1. Put redirects on the old address to the new domain, or
2. Leave the old site alone (still getting 30/day, mostly from other engines) and totally "rewrite" the new site.
3.Ideas?...

Thank you for your ideas.

Alan Pattinson

[edited by: engine at 6:43 pm (utc) on Nov. 28, 2002]
[edit reason] no urls, thanks [/edit]

John_Caius

6:37 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Links are good. A dedicated domain name helps, partly because your link text on other sites is more likely to be keyword-rich.

<edit> should say inbound links are *critical* - Google thinks your great content is great content only because other webmasters think it's great content. </edit>

Rugles

6:44 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Welcome Pacific

Before the moderators tell you, it may be a good idea to read the do's and don'ts of WebmasterWorld.

Yes, get a keyword rich domain name and hunt down new incoming links.

Read Bretts Google knowledge base and follow it to the letter.

glengara

6:49 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Proper domain, 301 redirects from the old pages, and drop that link to your promotion company.

Harley_m

6:51 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Welcome to SEO - stand still and drop... - with the algos changing so much at the moment - standing still isnt good enough - and recently we have been seeing a big shift over to incoming links - they seem to be more important by the day - that will be the cause of your drop i should think - a badly optimised site with PR 8 will beat a well optimised site of PR 1 any day...

martinibuster

6:56 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Lack of content, measly PageRank and lack of incoming links make this web site a 98 pound weakling. This web site is not "Ready to Rumble." Changing your url isn't going to alleviate the above mentioned shortcomings. It takes a bit of work to add content, solicit links, etc but that's what it sometimes comes down to.

I wouldn't classify this as an informative web site. It's selling remedies right on the front page. I don't understand how you can say that this is an "informative" web site. This is ecommerce.

Welcome to webmasterworld. There's a lot to read in here. Be sure to read the terms of posting. Site reviews and url posts aren't permitted.

I think that by reading through this forum you'll get a clearer picture of what's going on with your web site and things to avoid doing that will harm you.

Pacific

7:11 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Whoa whoa whoa!
First of all, THANKS to you all for your comments.

Second, sorry for missing the guidelines. I re-read (skimmed first time) the Guidelines, and will abide by them. I really LIKE the "no sig files" rule; it makes reading faster. There is so much to read.

Third, am I ever glad I found this forum! It's like going to a seminar, with friends, about SEO and websites and all the things that I love doing (and people PAY me to do for them!). With the bonus of being free.

I am a happy camper, and will be back!

Alan

varun007

7:15 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think I have a similar problem. As a hotel, I have clearly the most outside independent links of all the others and still my PR dropped from #3 to #8. I am also the most informative. On a regular google search too, I get beaten on the head by useless portal/search engines - that is a real flaw of google's. You never get an independent provider you only get portals. On alltheweb and msn they go directly to source sites.

Maybe the problem is that I am tryng to be too helpful, and the site is too informative..including stuff about the region, things to do etc etc..that seems to be penalising me..because all that matters to google is the key word 'hotel'. I really cant think of anything else...

[edited by: heini at 7:19 pm (utc) on Nov. 28, 2002]
[edit reason] no urls as per TOS / thanks [/edit]

glengara

7:18 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Silly me, you ARE the promotion company!

varun007

7:33 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



you're not serious...I'm just trying to compete with relevant words..but Im interested please tell me why you think so

varun007

7:34 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



just try "goa hotel" and you'll see what you get..!

Rugles

7:39 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I saw lots of Spam.

It hurt my eyes too.

varun007

7:40 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am sure there is something manual that google does..it isnt all algos...if you do "hotel
new york" or "hotel london" you dont get the same problem as if you do "hotel goa". In the former cases you dont have the clutter. Goa being a small place that is...

[edited by: varun007 at 7:43 pm (utc) on Nov. 28, 2002]

martinibuster

7:42 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



varun007
Position number 8 is not bad at all. Sometimes a keyword phrase is relevant for more than what you have in mind.

Have you researched your referrer logs to see what keywords people are using to find you?

I had a client that was using a two word keyword to yardstick seo efforts and I advised him that no amount of effort will pay off, for him or his competitors because the two words were too general: The serps were dominated by irrelevant behemoth PR 9 government web sites.

I suggested 3 word phrases likely to be used by searchers, as well as less general 2 word phrases.

At the end of the day, Position 8 is not bad, especially when the results above you aren't as relevant as you.

varun007

7:46 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thats exactly the kind of conclusion I had to draw too..its a kind of tradeoff. And what I believe is that when it gets extreme like in the "hotel goa" case for "hotel london" - they go i and fix it by hand. Do you think so?

martinibuster

7:46 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



G-- hotel is too general. G-- is associated with trance music, gay resorts, e, magic mushroom culture... aside from hotels.

I have to say that this is a pretty competitive two word phrase, though.

I think if a searcher was unhappy with those results they would do a more specific search.

Certain searches are too broad, have multiple meanings and ultimately the search results are cluttered. With G--, I think this is the case. Would they try G-- bed and breakfast? G-- resorts? Cheap resorts?

I think this is the type of search when drilling down those adjectives and finding the alternate search terms helps.

My two cents.

[edited by: martinibuster at 7:53 pm (utc) on Nov. 28, 2002]

glengara

7:51 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hey Varun, my comment was directed to pacific, not to you!

Rugles

7:51 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Martinibuster

You sure seem to have some interesting expertise in that keyword.

Varun

Keep reading this forum, I am sure you will find lots of ideas to help you climb in the SERPS. Brett has an excellent Google knowledge base which may help you.

martinibuster

8:53 pm on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



interesting expertise in that keyword.

I'm in San Francisco, so that kind of stuff gets high exposure out here... heh-heh.

maschu

8:38 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



to varuun007:

<they go i and fix it by hand. Do you think so?>

Yes I think so. I have the same problem and spend a lot of time on this. To find out more about this, change the language to e.g. german. You will see what happens about your site ranking. If your site winn all lost positions, it must be some restrictions made by hand in the engl. Barrels or Sorters or a mayor change in the engl. algorythm for some word-frases. (e.g. the frase real estate is interpeted as one word in engl. Google language version,
but as two words in german language version.)
In german/spanish/dutch/french language versions, dosnīt exist this restrictions.
Change your language tool and try it again

Franz