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Keep getting listed, then dropped... help!

Could really use some insights

         

WriterGirl

8:14 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)



I'm so glad I found this forum. My site went live about two months ago. Since then I've been listed on Google three times, usually ranked third or fourth out of a couple thousand. But within 24 hours to a few days my site drops from search altogether. I mean totally vanishes! A few days ago, it went up, the ranking dropped a bit (which is no big deal to me) and then it disappeared. Could this have anything to do with the fact that I signed up for Add Me, one of those services that submits your site for you? I probably get submitted twice a month (once by me, once by Add Me). Is that too much? This is so odd. I'm on several other search engines, but Google and Yahoo! are really the only ones I care about. What to do fellow webmasters?

hanewich

8:29 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This problem could be due to Everflux. Isn't is always? Hehe...

I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, but I have always stayed away from the so-called positioning services that submit your site to 18 gazillion search engines. And, on top of this, you are doing submitting as well. This can't be good. If your site keeps popping on and off, then that's good. It means that Google hasn't completely banned you yet. But, to continue with this two-pronged assault can only end in disaster (you being banned from Google for good).

WriterGirl

8:34 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)



So what do I do? I sent the submitter service a polite note asking them not to submit me for awhile, but of course I haven't heard back. I guess in the meantime, I'll just have to stop submitting myself. At least that will decrease the amount of submitting a little. I was such a newbie back when I bought in to the submission service! Ah, how I've grown up since then :-)

korkus2000

8:35 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Welcome to WebmasterWorld WriterGirl and hanewich, :)

Your site is new to the index so wait until the next update(pretty soon), and see if you have a solid footing in the database. This is normal. Just relax. You are not being banned.

I also agree with hanewich that those submitting services usually are just ways of spamming your site and getting your email address for more spam. You should submit your site manually to the big directories and engines. Google doesn't really care about submission. It wants to see an external link from a site already in the index. Like I said this is normal. I wouldn't worry about the automated submissions. I don't think it will hurt you, but multiple submissions won't get you better rankings either.

WriterGirl

8:38 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)



Wow, thanks for the quick responses. I guess I've wondered if the site submission service has hurt me to the point that it is the *reason* I keep getting bumped... Madness, eh?

korkus2000

8:40 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



No, we all started out that way. I hope you stick around for the dance. That is the real madness. :)

nancyb

8:42 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



writergirl,

Do a site search for "everflux", there are a lot of threads on this and this is most probably why you are in and out.

Also, if you aren't listed in ODP, then submit to them - only once a month and only your main page to the most appropriate category. Most of the major engines don't need submittals anymore, especially from those submitter services. Instead, get other sites to link to you by requesting a link from a site that is similar to yours.

Google will follow links, once they know you are there, which they do, there is no need to resubmit to them. The monthly google update will be coming fairly soon, so watch the home page of WebmasterWorld to see when this happens.

hanewich

10:51 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks for the kind welcome korkus2000. I have been reading these forums for a long time, and just decided to start participating today.

Rock on!

WriterGirl

11:49 pm on Nov 25, 2002 (gmt 0)



Ditto on the kind welcome Korkus. There is so much useful information here. I am so relieved to know there are quantifiable reasons for the "I'm on one minute, I'm off the next" issue, and that I am not the only one thinking I have committed some fatal Google faux pas. This is a great forum.

korkus2000

12:18 am on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Again, welcome and I hope you both stick around and add to our discussions. If you haven't already please read paynt's welcome post [webmasterworld.com].

steveb

1:48 am on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



writergirl, the way to stay in the google index is to have incoming links, not submitting the site. Everflux explains a lot, and it especially makes sense if you have been submitting the page but have no inbound links. Submitting via the form gets you visited once but you drop out of the index the next update because you weren't viited again because you have no inbound links.

pshea

3:03 am on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yes, writergirl, if you are happy with your site, don't tweak it to appease google. Concentrate on getting those links. You'll be in in and stable no time.

WriterGirl

3:21 am on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)



Thanks for the encouragement pshea and everyone else. The curious thing is that I am linked to from quite a few outside sites at this point, and on those occasions when I do appear, my PR is good (3 or 4 on a number of occasions). It's just the getting dropped problem. Before I found this forum, I thought I was the only one this was happening to! At least now I know it's part of the process for some of us.

steveb

3:50 am on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



When you say "about two months" the key date is about October 5th. If you weren't around before that then you likely missed the deep crawl and are only showing everflux results, which seem very good for you. Wait a few days or a week or so till the next update and then see if you are permanently in the results.

WriterGirl

4:54 am on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)



Interesting Steve. My site went live on Friday night, October 4, so you might be onto something! Will we be able to find out on these boards precisely when the next deep crawl is? Are you permanently listed on Google?
If so, how long did it take for that to happen?

steveb

9:56 am on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That is your answer. You aren't in the "real" index yet. The update (usually) happens the last week of the month. The deep crawl soon afterwards, like the first week of the month. Use the site search to get more info on those.

And to make the understatement of the year... yes, by reading this board you will know when the update and deep crawl happens.

If you were crawled the first week of November, which seems likely, you will appear in the index as of the update that is due in the next couple days. After that as long as you have active inbound links you will stay in.

WriterGirl

6:11 pm on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)



Let's hope I finally get in there permaently. That would be something to be thankful for! If the crawl is happening in the next couple of days, will updating my site have any effect on that? Or am I OK to update away?

nancyb

6:34 pm on Nov 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi WriterGirl,

The update will be happening soon, but the deep crawl for this (Nov) update would have happened soon after the last (Oct) update finished. So, any changes you make now will be reflected in the Dec update. However, if you make changes now, those may be reflected during the everflux which will happen on and off after the next (Nov) update completes.

Hope that makes sense ;)

WriterGirl

10:08 pm on Nov 27, 2002 (gmt 0)



Thanks for all the great info everyone! Well, yesterday I showed up again (yay!), due to the fresh crawl I think. I've noticed lots of new sites up today. I still worry that once I make it up via the deep crawl, the fact that I signed up with one of those submission services that submits monthly no matter what could get me de-listed. Does anyone know anything about this for sure? The submission service has not responded to my emails.

skirope

11:37 pm on Nov 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Here is the Authority (GoogleGuy):

[webmasterworld.com...]

Mohamed_E

11:58 pm on Nov 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



WriterGirl,

Don't worry about oversubmitting to Google, it doesn't care. Check the second paragraph of Submitting your site [google.com] on the Google Webmaster Info area. It seems pretty unambiguous to me:

You can submit your site as often as you like, but multiple submissions will not improve the likelihood of your site being added or accelerate the process. We do not penalize sites for 'over-submitting'.

WriterGirl

12:01 am on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)



Thanks skirope,

That's an informational thread; it explained a lot and after reading these boards for the last couple of days, I'm finally starting to get a handle on all this! Any idea though, how one knows if one is up as a result of the fresh crawl or the deep crawl? I guess it's just a matter of timing? Happy Thanksgiving...

WriterGirl

12:03 am on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)



Thanks Mohamed,

Yet another reassuring post...

Best,
WriterGirl