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I know it's a good site because my bookmark ratio is quite high. Oh, yes, there is stickiness. It's about content and more content. Did I mention content?:>)
So I'm living fine. Even beating commercial competition. It's just a hobby site for me...but I'm beating the commercial guys...which is GOOD.
It's NOT good, just because I have better content: It's GOOD because I beat the spammers with true content.
Which brings me to a point:
I am staring at a page (SERP), of course I'm listed first, but the ones below me are paying customers of my competition. The guy is using 'spam-lite'. (He's using hidden links on many sites.) Crosslinking 30 to 40 domains to achieve a PR5 on almost every domain.
What is really sad is he is spamming for a non-profit site. The non-profit doesn't even realize they are part of this house of cards he has built. Other legit businesses are using him...and they don't realize that in a moment the whole house can come tumbling down.
If Google says: Hidden Links are Spam, and innocent bystanders are going to be caught in the crossfire....what's a legit webmaster to do?
1. Do I contact the people who use the website?
2. Do I contact the people who have paid him good money to get them 'great results?'
Or:
3. As a last resort, do I contact the dreaded Google Spam page?
For a webmaster to leverage the PR of a non-profit, (who doesn't even know they are being used) is highly unethical to me.
I am without a good answer to this. Here we have a non-profit site, spamming, and all to produce more income and PR for his 'profitable' sites. And the non-profit is clueless to the scam.
So: Does one report the spam of a non-profit, who is clueless? Or do I hold my keystrokes to allow Google to provide a decent resource, albeit with Spam and artificial/disguised advertising?
[edited by: ScottM at 1:24 am (utc) on Aug. 31, 2002]
I've been studying this fella for almost a year. The pattern is clear. I haven't spoken with any of his clients, but I DO have second-hand reports...and they aren't pretty. He tends to 'burn bridges' (so to speak).
I have to give him credit. He's a good salesman. His clients are clueless as to his intent and spamming...this much I do know. He's only going on past results. I'm really his first competition.
I feel bad for his clients. He's so obvious and yet a real jerk if caught.
And that's ALL I need if he figures out I'm reporting him...I don't need the hassles.
Does GoogleGuy have any suggestions?
I tried very hard to convince him this was a dangerous thing to do, but he would not listen. I even confronted the SEO outfit doing this. They gave me some nonsense about the doorways not really being doorways, supposedly proprietory technology (uh-huh...) and when I asked to speak to the client's new rep, supposedly he was no longer with the firm, and so forth and so on. Laughable.
Oh yeah, the client's site got stomped by Google somehow, but I had nothing to do with that. I tried to save him. Some people WILL NOT LISTEN. I hope the non-profit listens. There's so much BS in this biz it ain't funny.
Perhaps the spam report page is nothing more than a signal to Google that a certain SERP is competitiive? ...and thus deserving of a special 'algo'...and then destroying the innocent?
WOW! If that's the case...it's worse than the toolbar issue!
Indeed, it would appear that the only 'spam reports' would come from competitors...and thus a scrutiny of the SERP in question.
I would have to disagree on this point. I routinely sent reports of "spam" to google and still do whenever I receive results that are full of grabage. Actually, until I started reading in here I thought the only spam was via email.
It was just a lot of garbage in the results.
Contacting the non-profit, and/or reporting it to Google not only brings more scrutiny to everyone, it also lays the foundation for an SEO revenge campaign.
That seems like more potential headache than it's worth. Just stay focused on developing the best content and let the rest sort itself out.
Perhaps a better place for it would have been under website promotion or something similar.
I'm trying to focus on the ethical portion of being a webmaster. I just quite haven't figured out where to draw the line. I wish it was black and white for me: "All's fair in love and war and SEO"...but it isn't. I'll play ball with the big guys, it's when the innocents get caught in the crossfire that I have an ethical problem with.
Even Google has relaxed a spam filter that caught innocent mom-and-pops. The fact is that Google recognizes those who are innocent and those who are at war. They seem to be drawing a line/distinction between the two.
I realize everyone here has different pressures put upon them: from putting food on the table to an overzealous boss. Greed plays a large portion, also. For me it's just pride (ok...a little greed also...though I haven't made one dime). All are motivators and cause people to do things to get the balance tilted in their favor.
Perhaps there is a time and a SERP where 'ignorance is bliss'? I'm leaning that way.
As for bookmarking the 'spam report' I find myself calling up the page several times weekly. As I catch the obvious in my searching. I begin to dig down and find a bunch of the innocents with their only top 10 listing. As the spam reports go flying, I find myself asking myself, "Should I REALLY be doing this?" "Am I just helping a SE who has no obligation to me whatsoever for doing THEM this favor?" "Should I be spending my time reporting this, or would I be better off forgeting the spam report page even exists...and letting the chips fall where they may."
One of my favorite lines from WebmasterWorld is, "Stay off the radar." This line implies someone is watching that radar screen. I feel as though I've drafted MYSELF to be the radar WATCHER.
I'm the tattle-tale and google is the un-biased decider of the fate of these sites. I'm doing some soul searching to decide if I want to be that tattle-tale anymore.
Contacting the non-profit, and/or reporting it to Google not only brings more scrutiny to everyone, it also lays the foundation for an SEO revenge campaign.
I disagree. If you know someone is being scammed, you have a moral obligation to inform the victim (in this case, the nonprofit). Saying "I don't want to get involved" is like standing by idly when you see a pickpocket lifting a victim's wallet.
It's likely that the nonprofit doesn't know the SEO is playing fast and loose with Google (at the nonprofit's potential expense), so I'd inform the nonprofit--not Google.
so I'd inform the nonprofit--not Google
But the non-profit is usually so ignorant they will take the e-mail to the spammer...who will politely tell the non-profit, "Ahh...this nothing. Look at your results!" and then Spammaster proceeds to track down his accuser with a vengeance...
All the while Google is on the sidelines...with no blood on their hands.
We all have glass houses in one way or another. It's just that Google has the biggest collection of rocks to hand out, and no glass house of their own. And those rocks can be addicting...almost to a fault.
