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SAN FRANCISCO — Google Inc.'s recently launched news service in China doesn't display results from Web sites blocked by that country's authorities, raising prickly questions for an online search engine that has famously promised to "do no evil.''Dynamic Internet Technology Inc., a research firm striving to defeat online censorship, conducted tests that found Google omits results from the government-banned sites if search requests are made through computers connecting to the Internet in China.
Making blowehard demands dosent work at the post office in the US let alone to China rulers.
Goolge is taking the correct approach IMO..
Get your foot in the door ..expand your contacts and influence opening your search a bit broader every year to the people of China..
The Chinese government is effectively that country's only ISP, and if it decides to block certain websites, then you pretty much don't have access to them in china. As an ISP, it's not a terribly difficult thing to simply block all info coming from domain "enemyofthepeoplesliberationarmy.com".
So, exactly what would be the point of google serving up search results from a domain you wouldn't be able to see anyway?
Yep. To Google, "do no evil" just means do nothing to diminish profits. Greed is good.
I gather you know nothing about web proxies? Anyone in China with half a clue could get around this.
Oh my god, Spain and Germany are censoring results too!
Must call the newspaper tomorrow!
I gather you know nothing about web proxies? Anyone in China with half a clue could get around this.
There are ways around any block, but 95% of the surfing population won't know how to do it. The average Chinese surfer isn't going to be leaps and bounds more intelligent than the average Western surfer.
So for 95% of the Chinese surfing population, blocked sites effectively won't exist. Serving up search results from them would be pointless.
And, as mentioned above, Google and other SEs screen results in all their listings, regardless of nation. Google and other SEs don't list info that IS accessible from the web from pages with noindex nofollow pages, which is a form of private censorship. Is that really any different, from an ethical point of view? Just because 1 private individual decides he doesn't want something listed in the index, is that a more ethically sound reason to keep something out of the public eye than when a government decides to limit access to certain information? Not to mention all the things that the engines simply miss.
For the forseeable future, there will be vast chunks of the web that are simply "off the radar" of the major SEs, most of it unintentionally, but some of it very intentionally. The web will always be tweaked for political reasons.
My favorite example: Within a few days of 9/11, "The Book of Destruction" was taken off freespeach.org (only to resurface elsewhere within a few weeks).
Western societies tend to have too much faith in free speach, they believe a myth that it exists in their own societies. It never has, and never will. Google "playing by the rules" in China is no different than google "playing by the rules" in the US, Canada, Europe, or anywhere else.
Oddly, the most "wide open" net tends to be in Russia right now. Go to securityfocus or some other security based watchdog site and do some heavy reading on exactly where all the top hacking sites and servers have been based out of for the past few years.
There are ways around any block, but 95% of the surfing population won't know how to do it.
And surely the remaining 5% could just use www.google.any other TLD?
Or just use a proxy in another nation. Sure, the vast majority of Chinese surfers don't know how to do this. But the intellectual elite who matter do. I just assume those with a clue in China know as much as I do. Asians ain't stupid in my experience.
There are a lot of them in many languages.
The Chinese Government are the representatives of the Chinese people
As much "representative" as Communist Party was on now defunct USSR.
IMO Google is on a very slippery road now with that censorship.
So, exactly what would be the point of google serving up search results from a domain you wouldn't be able to see anyway?
That's easy. If you search for, say "Tibet" or "tiananmen massacre" and find that most of the sites are blocked, you'll have a big hint that someone is hiding information from you.
Also, the SERP's will contain some of that information.
It's more like "See no evil, hear no evil" at Google these days.
Google's restrictions come from the countries it serves. Remember, it is the Chinese government that is the source of the censorship.
That's all well and good, but there are a couple of issues there.
1) Ethical companies don't do business in dictatorships
2) If there is censorship, is Google hiding it?
Another article from Epoch Times [english.epochtimes.com] discusses this as well.
I am from Sweden but live in Thailand, last year the government told the ISPs here that they have to block unsuitable websites on a blacklist maintained by the government. I havent found any blocked site yet but as I understood it was mainly targeting adult or gambling websites. (Porn is illegal by law here but still available everywhere "under desk")
That's all well and good, but there are a couple of issues there.1) Ethical companies don't do business in dictatorships
2) If there is censorship, is Google hiding it?
Ethics are not an issue at all. They're doing exactly what they have to do to be a presence in China. They won't actually win anything by being Captain America here. You have to pick your battles, and this one isn't theirs to fight. The chinese people are well aware of whats going on, when they're tired of it, they will do something about it.
While I don't like censorship and I'm a huge fan of free speech and open information, I simply don't see how Google has any choice if they want access to one of the largest markets on the planet.
All I have to say is AMEN!
It sure beats internet access in North Korea.
exactly what would be the point of google serving up search results from a domain you wouldn't be able to see anyway?
..and..
Serving up search results from them would be pointless.
The point is The Truth. Pretending these sites do not exist is collusion - plain & simple.
At least fellow humans living in China would know that their vision of the World was being twisted. Perhaps a small text message: "Banned by your government" would give them a fuller idea of the contempt that their 'representatives' hold them in.
The Chinese Government are the representatives of the Chinese people.
Whether any government could be said to be fully representative of its citizens is moot. Witness the extreme polarisation of opinion in The USA today. The Chinese Government don't even confuse the issue by having elections to argue about.
sigh...no politics, please.
Eh?
How could anybody possibly imagine this topic without politics?
The chinese people will have access to 99% of the information, that we in the West have.
Great. So they can have the sneakers, the mobile ringtones, and all that pap, but meaningful opinions from free-thinking individuals? ...well that's just 1% isn't it?
Heck, that makes you unethical just about every time you walk into a store and purchase various products.
Not every company claims "not to be evil" in its mission statement - Google is supposedly different but future will tell whether it is still good old Google or its Google PLC whose directors legal responsibility is to increase shareholders value.
If I want to sell my cars in China, I have to pass the Chinese safety and emissions tests even though my cars have already met a higher safety standard. If I don't, my cars and my company will get kicked out of China until I fall in line.
If freedom of information and speech is such a big deal for you, why haven't you written your representatives to boycott all China trade?
