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Kackle - can you explain the "dictionary" for me? And how I might benefit from it - Im reading your posts hard but dont see where youre coming from.
Sure. But you have to act quickly. Google will fix this one just like they fixed the hyphen.
1. Google is depreciating pages/sites that are over-optimized for certain keywords or keyword combinations. It does this by looking up search terms in a dictionary of target keywords or keyword pairs that it has compiled. This dictionary is Top Secret, because if you knew what was in the dictionary, you could avoid these words in your optimization efforts.
2. If the search term or terms hit on a dictionary entry, the search results for that user's search are flagged. This means that before the results are delivered, the order of the links, or even the inclusion of links, are adjusted so as to penalize pages that have overoptimizated for those terms. Most likely the title, headlines, links and anchor text are examined. It's possible that external anchor text pointing to that page has also been pre-collected and is available for scanning, but this is much less likely. (Besides, external links are not something within your immediate control, so don't worry about it right now.)
3. You want to find out which keywords that are relevant to your site are in Google's dictionary. Compile as many relevant keywords you can think of that searchers might use to find your site. Now take these words singly and in pairs, according to how users might search. Run two searches for each combination and compare the results.
4. If the results are strikingly different for the pre-filter and the post-filter search on a particular term or combination of terms, it means that some variation of those terms has been flagged because something was found in Google's dictionary.
5. Do lots of searches and you can come up with a list of "sensitive" words that you'll want to avoid when you re-optimize your pages.
It's a nice weekend project.
Google is in the spotlight big time in financial circles.
Fortunately for them this is a slow media week in the US.
-c
Now here's the SEO deal. For the main 2-word phrase, it ranks #2. For the main 3-word phrase (which contains the 2-word phrase as the first two words), it ranks #1. It is not optimized for any other phrases. It is ranked out of 2,000,000 results.
PR was a 4 and is now a 5 on -va. There are only 21 backlinks to the site (which are reciprocated via the seven backlinks at the bottom of the page - so obviously some of the links to this site appear more than once on the other sites).
It uses H1 tags for both phrases.
All of the incoming links use either the 2-word phrase or the 3-word phrase as the anchor text.
2-word phrase - 10% density
3-word phrase - 10% density
url is hyphenated using all 3 words as the url.
title begins with the 3-word phrase.
[added] because it is a 1-page site, there are no internal link issues. i do have seven links to external sites at the bottom of the page, none of which include either of the optimized phrases.[end of added]
i hadn't really analyzed this site until now because frankly, i never really even think about that site. but looking at it now, it contradicts all the things that i thought might be wrong with my missing site's page.
the ONLY difference is that the phrase is not a huge moneykeyword. it does show 4 adwords ads when searching the phrase, but it's not one of the big money phrases, so if the "dictionary" exists, its not in there. (just confirmed that adding -dkdkdk to the end doesn't change the results).
not sure what to make of this analysis. any thoughts?
[edited by: dazzlindonna at 5:05 pm (utc) on Nov. 23, 2003]
Fortunately for them this is a slow media week in the US.
I doubt that anyone will notice but webmasters.
The press won't be bothered that pages have been replaced by other pages.
However if a major player that users Googles database decides to withdraw or move to another company due to the poor results then you would have a story.
As for what we have at the moment is just pure webmaster only news.
I must say however that your very useful example fits a set of conditions I'm looking at that might exist within Kackle's theory.
I believe it's possible to have all those factors you mentioned in place, and not be banished even if your KW phrases are in the dictionary. If I can find no exceptions to the set after more testing, I'll post it for scrutiny.
[edited by: caveman at 4:51 pm (utc) on Nov. 23, 2003]
To add a bit to wild theories, there is no comment from in the know people because this super amazing long thread is an in detail analysis of google results by hundreds or more people. ( which is being replicated on every other seo forum). Could you even buy this kind of analysis?
I feel like a lab rat at this point.
To add a bit to wild theories, there is no comment from in the know people because this super amazing long thread
And why should they comment?
At the end of the day Google is just another web site like the rest of us.
They can update and change the way they operate as much as they like. Long term we all know Google is looking to improve their results and be the best web site (search engine) for users to find web sites.
WebmasterWorld is a great place for webmasters to share their ideas and opinions relating to webmaster topics from Php to on-line marketing. Google doesn't answer to anyone even if this thread went to Part 6, which I can see it will.
WW is not a place to put pressure on Google to speak up or to make them change the way they operate. Like most big companies they will look out for any feedback and comments from forums like WW and other media.
They do a great job and have come along way and it won't end here.
Create your sites for your business and not for Google its the only way :)
<<I would say the update is done and has been since at least tuesday.>>
Ahh..a hint of reason among the insanity.
[edited by: mfishy at 5:08 pm (utc) on Nov. 23, 2003]
To make matters worse, an Amazon.com book page is in the #1 position--which seems pretty dumb, since people who are looking for information on [keyphrase] obviously want the information, not an ad for a book.
Fortunately, most of my traffic arrives on inside pages, and one of my other inside pages is #6 for the keyphrase, so I probably won't see any major traffic impact while waiting for the next tweak in Google's algorithm. There's a lot to be said for not having all of one's eggs in one .htm or .html basket!
Side note: This thread was 70 pages long when I hit the sack this morning. Do we need to start saving pages so we can later reference?
I've faired ok with this update except for the two word combo that is my top search in my niche that I have deliberately targeted using the methods outlined in WW. (nothing excessive)
I thought since this is the only area I'm lacking in at the moment, I'd crank up my bid for this two word combo. Interesting enough, no matter how much I bid I can't seem to raise my position in the adwords column. This "could" just be a time delay thing, and I'll report later if my position raises.
The interesting thing about this is, all my other keyword phrases that I'm using adwords with show the "interest" meter at 100%, but for this 2 words main phrase that my site is optimized for, it's at 50%.
Any possibility that there's some penalty in play that shows up on the adwords "interest" bar?
Check your adwords for your missing 2 keyword combos and see if the "interest" meter on the adwords window is less than 50%.
Unca
oops...change that to less than 100%
Unca
