Google Introduces Geolocation "Extreme Version"

Impossible to break out of localized Taiwan Google

[NeverHome]

I live in Taiwan, and often use a computer running a Chinese OS. In the past when I went to google in defaulted to the Taiwan Google, but there was a link on the home page saying "Google in English" or something like that.

But now (since yesterday?) that "Google in English" link has disappeared. But what's WORSE is that even when I go to www.google.com I'm still seeing the Taiwan Chinese language interface!

If this is some new fangled "innovation" cooked up by that battery of PhD's then I must say, it sucks. I want my English www.google.com back. Please.

[ciml]

I have two questions for people who get redirected:

1. If you go to [google.com...] instead of just www.google.com, so you still get redirected?

2. If you have cookies enabled, and follow from that page to the preferences [google.com] page, make you choices and click "Save Preferences", then what happens when you go to www.google.com in future?

[msgraph]

1. No, Google in English

2. Yes, you can select Global preferences in English and it stays that way, with a link on their homepage back to your local version. Until now, it used to be you could just select Google in English on the main page and it would set the cookie to save it that way.

However, this is where it always get's buggy and where I have been given many foreign, ie. Korean and Chinese, pages in the past.

Right now if I go to Services and Tools page, it is in English. If I go to their "All About Google" and pages linked from there, everything is in Spanish.

Usually a quick note to here, [services.google.com...] , solves most of the problems, but I'm just tired of doing it ;)

[sanuk]

Hi,

This is Sanuk from Thailand,

Everything has changed again!

Now clicking on [google.com...] brings me back to the English-language US site of Google with a normal English language Interface.
I am NO MORE Redirected to www.google.co.th
GOOD GOOD GOOD!

This english Interface now contains a link to Google Thailand as follows:

>> Advertise with Us - Business Solutions - Services & Tools - Jobs, Press, & Help - Google Thailand <<

Regards,
Sanuk

[aravindgp]

sasunk,
I am happy for you.Great work GoogleGuy.

when I was looking at the discussions..I flet wat will happen if everytime I type www.google.com is redirected to hindi languague just for a day.It will be very costly for me in adwords wise.

Oh I dread to belive this,it will be huge cost to pay.Thank goodness it was handled in a day.

Aravind

[g1smd]

If I use any normal UK dialup ISP then access to Google is fine, but as soon as I try to use the Pipex Broadband system I then get redirected to www.google.nl which is very strange. This is from inside the UK.

[NeverHome]

From here in Taiwan, when I type www.google.com in te address bar, I still get localised google in tradition chinese.

Ciml, (1) when I go to [google.com...] I get an english language interface but with chinese characters bottom-left on the logo, saying Chinese (Traditional). A link under the search box, marked Google.com is linked to [google.com...]

(2) I have have cookies enabled, went to the preferences page, made choice for English and "Saved Preferences". Then I typed Google in the address bar and VOILA! Chinese Language interface again!

[Mozart]

Well, this geolocation redirect is the main reason that finally got me out of lurking! So GoogleGuy may say it had some good effect...

Chris_D: if you imply that the default language has something to do with it, sorry, can't be all. I have default of English, but sit in Germany (German not being in the language list!) and any attempt to follow the link to google.com/ncr is punished by a straight redirect to normal google.de with German interface. However, still wouldn't mind a Cool Ice at the Pontoon or the Slip-Inn :)

chinook: traceroute I image is too slow to do on every surfer, so a database of IPs to geolocation is more like it.

ciml: fascinating, if I go to google.com/intl/en (no backslash!) I get a 404 (yes!), with /intl/en/ I get to a English language version which is not google.com as it has a link to Google Deutschland. So same situation as sanuk with link to Google Thailand.

I guess - GoogleGuy, can you confirm? - the traffic on google.com has been getting so heavy that someone decided to force-redirect everybody to their local versions, thinking to both do them a favour and at the same time reduce traffic loads on google.com. US users can still go to any other local google version as that means reduction in traffic as well.

The problem is that this someone did not think that some people may on purpose want to go to google.com, say for a reference check. So please GG, put in a very very good word for all of us that we can at least reach it again!

PS: I just had to test on my first ever post how this editing works and so would like to add:
Can't somehow DNS send out a google.com IP of a closer real replica of google.com if requested from a, say browser from Europe? Without it automatically being a real local version in either the local language or in English but with local language version link (a giveaway that they still have somehow localised it)?

[PatrickDeese]

I am located in Mexico - and using the toolbar seems to let me search in the US version - going to google.com through IE goes to Google.com.mx, and from there the link to Google.com.

Luckily I use the Toolbar, but even so, going to the home page with the toolbar now shows "Google México" as a link option.

It is a lot harder to see what potential US tourists are going to see in the SERPs when I don't get the same results as they do.

I guess I am going to have to do a lot more google-ing using lynx from my US IP'd web server. :(

[edited by: PatrickDeese at 1:22 am (utc) on May 20, 2003]

[jmccormac]

Can't somehow DNS send out a google.com IP of a closer real replica of google.com if requested from a, say browser from Europe? Without it automatically being a real local version in either the local language or in English but with local language version link (a giveaway that they still have somehow localised it)?

From what I can see of Google, it is just redirecting on simple IP lists. The problem with this is that you can have IP ranges which may physically be in one country showing up as being assigned to another country so it is not going to be 100% reliable. RIPE (The European IP Resource) tends to update its IP database daily whereas most of the other IP registries update on a monthly basis. Google does not seem to be solving the problem of accurately geolocating European owned websites (something that I've been working on for some time now and it seems Google doesn't want to know about. ;) )

Regards...jmcc

[anallawalla]

I am in Australia and we had this some months ago when Google proudly gave us google.com.au when we typed google.com. This still happens, but can be easily overcome by the Toolbar Options setting "Search using:". Just make it google.com and Bob's your father's brother. Here's the catch: you have to search from the Toolbar the first time. Then save the search string as you prefer it (my home page is the .com Advanced Search) and you can call up the bookmark, no worries.

In Australia it is said that we suffer from a cultural cringe where nothing made locally can be any good. Altavista Australia used to display old SERPs and fewer results when it was in existence, but at least one was able to use the US Altavista.

In reality, com.au delivers the same data as .com so there is no real problem. Unfortunately, many Aussies host overseas and don't show up as an Australian site - I notice UK people making the same observation. So, the real issue is Google's simplistic assumption of what makes a site "from Australia".

[chiyo]

>>many Aussies host overseas and don't show up as an Australian site - I notice UK people making the same observation

I thought it was bit more complex that just the host location only, maybe also includes factors relating to incoming links and maybe even on-page text. My memory of the discussions is failry blur, but i think its more than just hosting location alone.

[shrirch]

To make things worse, I was talking to an investment banker who works in Hong Kong and his companies Internet connection is from Japan. He was forced to view japanese pages, until I told him to click on "Google.Com".

I work in Hong Kong and was forced to view google.com.au because my companies internet connection is based out of Australia. :)

[jmccormac]

I thought it was bit more complex that just the host location only, maybe also includes factors relating to incoming links and maybe even on-page text. My memory of the discussions is failry blur, but i think its more than just hosting location alone.

Google's definition of what constitutes a site from or a page from $country tends to be defined by the IP of the hosting server or the cctld of the domain. Anything beyond that and it becomes a very hit and miss affair if you apply page ranking. Where Google's country granularity fades is on com/net/org/info sites from a country hosted outside (typically on USA IP space) that country's IP space.

Regards...jmcc

[parabola]

This is really poor. It seems ALL the changes of late are making my pages less accessable.

[msgraph]

Just as a reminder, I'm going to restate what Heini posted above:

note: this discussion is about the local/language Google site users are served, not about serps. That's a different topic, with even more dynamite in it

[jmccormac]

Closing the loop on SERPs and using them to refine its 'user preselection' could be a good thing but it would also be rather Big Brotherish. Other SEs tend to track click throughs but it may be possible to identify clusters of wrongly categorised IPs. Then again there are easier ways of doing this and eventually I think Google will get into more personalisation of the search process with cookies and 'MyGoogle' type approaches. The general trend in software has been to make the interface simpler, (Click and Drool). Thus people almost expect search engines to have some sentience and to be automagically detect where the user is based. However as Google and other SEs have shown, the software used at present is not perfect.

Regards...jmcc

[GoogleGuy]

Hey, I know the UI folks will check out this thread, so feel free to post suggestions for how to select tld, language, and whether to do country redirects easily.

[msgraph]

For one I think the Geo Problem Report Link [services.google.com] should be visible in the preferences or language settings pages. Perhaps even on the main page if you want to go that far. That would probably cut down on the mails you receive to help@ and webmaster@.

If you go back to the "Google In English" link or keep the current "Go To Google.com" link then please give me the English version of Google, not Español.

People can still select "la Web" or "páginas en español" on Google.com.ar, Google.com.mx, etc. so why send them to a generic "Google en Español" with the same options?

[sanuk]

Hi GoogleGuy,

Let me give my ten cents of advice on this, regarding the problems I had here in Thailand - See my previous postings above in this same message.

People travel and settle around the world very fast, they sometimes speak the basics of the language but reading is something else (surely in Asian countries).

Put every interface in any country in the English language, but add a link (a sentence) that is written in the local language(s) that says: "click here to set this interface in the XXXXXXXX language". I mean a sort of preferences that could be stored in a cookie.

Surely do not Force-Redirect people to a local-geographic Google.

As an example, currently here in Sattahip-Pattaya in Thailand there are ten's of Thousands of US-marines for the Cobra Gold excersises together with soldiers from Singapore and some other countries. On leave, they are visiting the hundreds of Internet Cafe's and the Internet centers in the hotels to comunicate with home. These people only speak English. Let them choose the Interface they want and the Google database center they want!

Same goes for travelling business people and tourists.

I myself are a Belgian Expat living in Thailand, I speak basic Thai but I cannot read a word.
I like to work with the US and UK google database but sometimes I want to go to the Belgian (Dutch & French) and the Nederlandse Google (in Dutch), just to find things, or read news from my re gion in my mother language.

Every day I am hungry for some news in Dutch, French and English, surely not the Google news in Thai-language!

And seeing all these AD-boxes with advertising in Thai language also makes my eyes turn.

OK thats my ten cents of advise out of Thailand.

Regards,
Sanuk

[PatrickDeese]

Maybe the solution would be some sort of text that says in the Geo language -

"did you know you can search from Google [location]?
click here to make your preferred search selection"

and then have it go to the Google in your language page with all the flags.

By the way, it would be nice, it there was a US flag on there so that out of the country folks can search via plain old ".com".

[stever]

I think from a usability point of view, GoogleGuy, your aim should be to give your customers what they wish.

Thus if you want to go down the road of geo-targeting, give the user from an Austrian IP (or whatever you are using to target) a link to google.at in German from google.com, and likewise a link in English to google.com from google.at.

But let them have what they originally wanted!

This isn't a big problem with those examples, but I can see the problems with multilingual countries or areas with different alphabets, such as Switzerland or India.

[Napoleon]

>> I know the UI folks will check out this thread, so feel free to post suggestions for how to select tld, language, and whether to do country redirects easily <<

I would say the obvious.... which might not please the 'brand police'.... big buttons on the local TLD page for each of the major languages applicable to that territory.

[NeverHome]

This is SO annoying. One other frustrating problem I am having now concerns links in my stats to search terms used to reach my site. In most cases the google links include the hl=en modifier, so I see "english" search pages. And, as previously, many of the search links show visitors have used google.co.uk, google.il etc. BUT, some search links do not seem to have this hl=en (orwhatever) information.

Here is a google link in my stats used to reach my site (I have changed the actual keywords to example+keywords):

[google.com...]

Now, when I click on that link from here in Taiwan I get the results appearing as if the visitor had come to my site from Taiwan. And frankly, unless there has been a sudden and unprecedented rush of interest from Taiwan for "example keywords" in the last day or so, then I am getting a skewed ingight as to who is visiting, and where they are likely to have come from.

Yes, I know I could check my stats another way to give me a better idea of where visitors come from. But I'm lazy, and in the past just being able to view the same search page that the visitor had used to reach my site was enough for me. It gave me a "smell", a "flavor" of where people were coming from and what they were lookin for.

But these days so many of the google search pages used to reach my site seem to have distinct wanton taste.

[Mozart]

I fear it may be a while before I can go to google.com without problems again. And I hope that GG is right in saying the folks responsible for this will read this thread.

Trying to go to google.com I end up on google.de. So I searched for google.com on google.de. Of course found the right address and followed the link. But this bad bad site has a deceptive redirect to google.de. So I went to [google.com...] and filled it out. Deceptive redirect. I wonder if google.com will now be PR0'ed soon.

Serious, if others are not supposed to do this, then you should not do this either. It is a deceptive and forceful redirect that does not correspond to the search results. Were it another site you would say "Do a permanent redirect from .com to .de and after one month forget about the .com domain and de-register it.". But it is your site and your search engine. How you treat this situation will show if you are "e pluribus unum"...

Question: Why this redirect?

Is it a branding/marketing issue? Too many visitors going to google.com and not enough to the localised versions? People not aware of their local versions? Then spending some money on offline marketing or even your own adwords on .com (wouldn't cost you a thing aside of lost revenue from another adwords ad) can do the trick "Did you know Google exists in your language? Click here!"

This way you could allow those who purposely want to go to google.com to continue to do so. Your own adwords campaign would be in line with your up to now excellent record of being user-friendly and non-intrusive. Every user then has a choice to continue using .com or go to their local version. Everybody would be happy.

Regards,

Mozart
(always looking for harmony)

[TheComte]

GoogleGuy, living must be extremely difficult for you these day. I feel for you my friend. hehe.

[ncsuk]

cant you just type in www-ex.google.com seens as that is the main server?

[killroy]

also writing, in this case on google.com.mt, in maltses "this page is also avaialable in english" is a bit pointless. In a country where half the population (LOCAL population) speak only english as it was the official lanuage for many years, and some don't even read it.
at least write "also available in english" in ENGLISH so those, needign that link, can actually understand it.

SN

[msgraph]

There are plenty of countries with hundreds of thousands or millions of people who far far outweigh the population of native english speaking users in those countries.

I don't think Google is going to send everyone to Google.com with a regional link for locals. That is unfair to the local people who will have to spend more time customizing settings. They should should have just as much a chance to enjoy a local version than something set up just to please tourists or expats. Those aren't very good excuses, imho.

[amazed]

I actually think geolocation is very nice

if

I can choose between options
and I know exactly what I am going to get

so Id suggest a

choose your language option
and
choose your location option plus an offer of explication what's the difference

[zobhirax]

Backlinks are always bad....