Given this substantial level of forum activity, and by way of being more clear as to why the disabling of accounts is occurring, I have been asked by my colleagues at Google to post the message below:
In keeping with our mission to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful, we spend a tremendous amount of time and effort monitoring the quality of our search and ad results. As we've stated many times before, Google's primary focus is on delivering the best possible search experience to our end users. To help further this goal, we work with our advertisers in a number of different ways to help them design and run the best ads possible.
Unfortunately, some online advertisers continue to promote services and websites that do not help, and in some cases could harm, our users. For instance, these advertisers may offer free services that bait users into accepting hidden fees. Or these advertisers may attempt to deliver malware to unsuspecting web citizens. Regardless of the practice, these types of campaigns do not benefit our users and we therefore take steps to enforce our policies [adwords.google.com] and prevent such advertisers from running ads through our systems.
Over the last decade Google has implemented a number of systems and processes to identify and disable ads that direct users to these offending websites. However, the ad disabling procedures have resulted in ongoingback and forth between us and these questionable advertisers as they try to outsmart our systems and processes. Therefore, we're being stricter with advertisers who deliver a bad user experience by permanently disabling AdWords accounts that engage in prohibited behavior.
Recently we began implementing this new account disabling. As a result, many advertisers who provide a poor user experience and have previously had their ads disabled will now have their accounts disabled.
We take our user, advertiser and publisher experiences very seriously, and remain dedicated to delivering only the highest quality advertising results to our users. We believe this new process of permanently disabling accounts will markedly improve the overall experience of our users, advertisers and publishers.
AWA
That's not really what AWA does here.
HELP PLEASE
There are two links on the second page of this thread (plumber something). If you're right, push it until you get it right on their side. They have to listen...
small company...thanks. I'll check that out.
Well they reviewed it and after a week sent an email of apology and everything was ok again for that one campaign.I wouldn't be surpised if they also count previous warnings as an actual warning even when they have admitted the warning was incorrect.
NOW..they disabled our entire account. No warning...no reason except some 'possible' canned reasons and none of them apply to us as far as we know.
About one and a half year ago one campaign I was running got 1/10 quality score. I contacted support back then and asked what the problem was. After a manual review I also received an apology that it was flagged as poor landing quality by 'accident' and they restored the quality score.
After that I asked support if the original warning still existed on my 'warning track record' or if they removed it. Never received a reply on that question.
Since they also sometimes send out disaproval warning for long time ago deleted campaigns/ads I would not be surpised at all when the 'you are banned' algorithm does not care about if a campaign/ad has been deleted and if a warning from the past was made by 'accident'.
The track record of AdWords regarding the errors AdWords have made in the past and is still making doesn't give me the feeling or believe that the 'you are banned for the rest of your life' algorithm is working like it should it be working.
Perhaps that is also one of the reasons why they can't or won't send specific details about why an account is banned.
You should probably get a professional to take a look at your accounts/sites to see if they can figure out what triggered the ban.They are using AdWords for almost ten years? What kind of professional should they hire that beats that kind of experience and knowledge?
There are two links on the second page of this thread (plumber something).Good suggestion. Voxman, read the post about the guy that got his account restored.
They won't answer my emails so I can't even get to this base.Also no reply on the first reply you have send? Perhaps you should use the form from the AdWords help pages to contact them. I experienced in the last couple of months that when you send directly an email via your mail client then sometimes they will not reply at all. (unless you are replying to an email received from support that a tracking ID in the subject)
You should probably get a professional to take a look at your accounts/sites to see if they can figure out what triggered the ban.
The problem is that many of us here are "professionals" when it comes to AdWords - and yet many of us still have no clue why we have been banned. What is even more perplexing is why Google is so ruthless with no appeal process? I can only assume that its due to under-staffing.
Hate to bring this up...but there are 'black hat' ways to get another ADwords account with G.
[...] What is even more perplexing is why Google is so ruthless with no appeal process? I can only assume that its due to under-staffing.
mortgagemax, if you are referring to recent account disablings then the last line of the email sent will read as follows:
[...] If you have additional questions or concerns not addressed by our policies or help center, you can contact support by replying to this email.
Replying directly to the email will send your email to the correct team (whereas contacting support in any other way will not) and I recommend it as the best way to get one's questions and/or concerns addressed.
To set reasonable expectations, I am guessing that the response time from that team will be measured in days, rather than hours.
Everyone,Hate to bring this up...but there are 'black hat' ways to get another ADwords account with G.
If you truly hate to bring this up, zohan777, then I think it might be best to not bring it up. Otherwise, it might have at least the appearance of a suggestion, as opposed to a regret.
Ironically, this is exactly the mindset that has led to account disablings.
AWA
<edit> Add a few words by way of clarification </edit>
If you really think you can blame black hat tactics on your poor and shameful handling of account dis-banning you are sadly mistaken this crowd for fools. You obviously have not bothered reading the comments on this blog. The people voicing their frustrations are NOT black hat gurus, but straightforward honest business people trying to make a living and getting their Adword accounts getting shutdown senselessly and with the lowest level of customer service and courtesy conceivable.
It's all too obvious you had forgotten they are your CUSTOMERS and built business around your advertising platforms. Clearly, YOU don't give that a 2nd thought or consideration as evident by the careless and harsh handling of their accounts.
SHAME ON YOU and Google for not having the insight to understand your customers as well as you try to serve your user community.
Netmeg....hire a professional? I don't see why we have to do that and what good it would do. I checked them all and everything looks right.
The problem is that many of us here are "professionals" when it comes to AdWords - and yet many of us still have no clue why we have been banned.
Ok, so don't. I for one believe that nobody is entirely objective when it comes to their own sites and own campaigns (including me) and were I in the same situation, I would not hesitate to call in some extra eyeballs to catch something I missed (and believe me - I'm a professional) but maybe that's just me.
zohan777 - you're a new user, so maybe you don't realize, but we don't generally go for personal attacks here. I'm hoping a moderator edits your comments directed specifically to AWA.
If you think the ranting and threats are going to amount to anything or change Google's policies, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. And if your first impulse is to go 'black hat' to get around a banning - then you probably weren't a good match for AdWords to begin with.
My attack is aimed entirely at Google but seems AWA is either an employee or someone that strongly supports their approach on this topic so unfortunately him/her as one and the same.
My first (nor 2nd) impulse is NOT to go to black hat, BUT at the same time if Google embraces unfair business practices which I strongly believe is the case here then they are inviting this upon themselves.
You should visit another thread in this category which was started by a member that seems lost most or all of his business and livelihood as a result of G's banning his account. He's not alone either - there are numerous blogs in which ordinary honest folk that did not intend on malicious practices but may have accidentally breached a policy and got their account canned. I don't believe that's a fair or reasonable business practice and it only stems from G marketshare in search (=arrogance). Case in point, you don't see Yahoo or MSN handling their advertisers this way.
Lastly, I can understand G reprimanding account holders for breaching policies etc. but a LIFE-BAN? Please don't tell me you think this is a reasonable business practice.
And for the record, I've never used or even know how to use black hat tactics and like most members on this site my Adwords account was white hat - clean. Yes, we breached a G policy once but it was correct within minutes of being informed by G. This was our only breach EVER.
And then our account was shut. No warning or explanation. Please help me make any sense and feel that was a fair act from G.
Thanks.
My first (nor 2nd) impulse is NOT to go to black hat, BUT at the same time if Google embraces unfair business practices which I strongly believe is the case here then they are inviting this upon themselves.
No, that's how we justified our actions when we were twelve. Once we're adults, we get past that. Even if Google *has* screwed you over, that doesn't mean suddenly anything goes. Their bad behavior (if in fact that is the case) does not excuse yours.
You should visit another thread in this category which was started by a member that seems lost most or all of his business and livelihood as a result of G's banning his account.
I've seen that thread (and many others) And it's unfortunate for him, but you should maybe go visit *this* thread, where you will see my views on that:
[webmasterworld.com...]
Namely:
Google does not run your business. Google does not ruin your business. If it can't survive without Google, then YOU have ruined your business.I'll keep saying it till it sinks in.
In particular for people primarily in the affiliate business - how did *anyone* not see this coming? It's been all over everywhere (including this forum) for well over two years.
Lastly, I can understand G reprimanding account holders for breaching policies etc. but a LIFE-BAN? Please don't tell me you think this is a reasonable business practice.
It's harsh, but I understand it. They'd rather work with the people who work within their system and fit their business model. It's not personal, but merely a business decision. It's easier and more efficient to work with these people than try to rehabilitate or convert the accounts that aren't within their business model.
None of us are *entitled* to an AdWords account, particularly if our business model doesn't match Google's. If you're confident yours is a good one, then you need to find another way to market it. If it requires Google to work, and Google doesn't want it - it's not a good model.
and not that I usually stick my nose in here, but zohan, we don't do personal attacks and you should not shoot the messenger instead read some of the other threads and listen to the message.
On this thread:
mortgagemax, if you are referring to recent account disablings then the last line of the email sent will read as follows:[...] If you have additional questions or concerns not addressed by our policies or help center, you can contact support by replying to this email.Replying directly to the email will send your email to the correct team (whereas contacting support in any other way will not) and I recommend it as the best way to get one's questions and/or concerns addressed.
from an earlier link [google.com]
Please note that no one in this forum, including the AdWordsPros and the Top Contributors, can personally assist you in this matter. The key to getting further information, or to disputing the disabling, is contained in the last line of the quoted email - which I will repeat here:not my bold!" [...] If you have additional questions or concerns not addressed by our policies or help center, you can contact support by replying to this email."
Please note that this will send your email to the correct team, whereas contacting support in any other way will not.
& from same thread much later
I can only repeat my previous advice of replying directly to the email you have been sent, ajttoday. Doing so will send your email directly to the right team - whereas contacting by other means will not.
I think the message is clear, whether AWA or AWP like it or not, and I also think that AWA's 4000+ posts of support, where possible, entitles him/her to more than a knee jerk reaction in these forums, we're really quite friendly, and a lot are obviously in the same boat.
If you truly hate to bring this up, zohan777, then I think it might be best to not bring it up. Otherwise, it might have at least the appearance of a suggestion, as opposed to a regret.Ironically, this is exactly the mindset that has led to account disablings.
What other choice do people have when you ban them for life without telling people what they did wrong and give them no way of fixing what's wrong? Merry Christmas Google.
The same applies to any company "rep" who posts here be they ASA or Yahoo "whoever" or Microsoft "spinmeister" of the moment ..( and the people change but frequently keep the same nick ..which other members here dont do ) ..
Pretending that company reps are webmasters along with the rest of us members is either naive or misleading and certainly not the truth...and over 4000 posts from a PR employee is not "support" ..support is when over 4000 posts have been made to them ..by other members saying thanks..
IMO "personal" doesn't apply to company reps posting ..again ..they are not webmasters like the rest of us..they are pushing their employers product ..and if they weren't from the search engines ..some of their their posts would probably be considered spam under the TOS here.
BTW unless the posts by zohan777 have been invisibly edited ..( which I doubt ) then he or she has made no "threats" which I could see .
The presence of company reps here can be ( but in reality is rarely ) usefull ..but often is just selling their features ..or attempting to spin when their bosses either do something wrong ..or handle a problem badly ..and is sometimes just outright misdirection and fud .
In particular for people primarily in the affiliate business - how did *anyone* not see this coming? It's been all over everywhere (including this forum) for well over two years.
Can this statement (as far as this primarily affecting affiliates)really stand at this point? I mean, affiliates are definitely getting pounded but A LOT of posts in the super long threads on this subject and from a lot of other sources seem to suggest regular non-affiliate businesses in many markets are getting the boot as well.
Overall the complaints that seem about 60/40
They'd rather work with the people who work within their system and fit their business model.
Tell that to all the non affiliate guideline following businesses that have gotten the boot. That is going to come across perhaps the wrong way but it represents the most infuriating aspect of this....what exactly are their rules and "guidelines"?
Please don't tell me to read the help files I get that from Google's autoresponders :-) and those aren't' their guidelines...at least the ones that matter as it pertains to this situation.
And really that's all I think most people want to know. Why specifically and what specifically got them banned.
I think most of the anger and frustration would have disappeared or greatly diminished by now if people had a believable specific answer.
First he was banned, then unbanned:
[URL snipped]
now he is banned again:
[URL snipped]
crazy stuff.
[edited by: buckworks at 7:07 am (utc) on Dec. 4, 2009]
[edit reason] No URLs please; see TOS [/edit]
"Google does not run your business. Google does not ruin your business. If it can't survive without Google, then YOU have ruined your business."
Sorry, netmeg - this comment is detached from a simple reality. Google controls 70%+ (last time I checked) of search engine traffic. That's a monopoly. And many (!) businesses, online and offline, rely heavily on search traffic as the main source of advertising. Therefore, having their account banned IS in fact ruining the business. This is no different than Microsoft announcing tomorrow that it's pulling Windows off for some users that breached their licensing terms (and believe me there are plenty of those!). Because of the market monopoly (both MS and Google) they have a responsibility to their CUSTOMERS - entities that built their businesses relying on their technology (MS) and advertising (G). I put to you that G could have simply devised a disincentive systems (few ideas mentioned in this thread alone) to ensure it becomes unprofitable for anyone to breach their policies. That would have worked extremely well and would have been highly acceptable to most Adwords account holders.
The only reason G is handling account banning as they are is ONLY because they have monopolized search advertising and know that people have few other choices and hence can't do much about it. (i.e. going to MSN and YHOO is not an equal alternative). I'm willing to bet that if they were, this whole affair would've been handled dramatically differently.
Instead, they have opted to a brutal, harsh and worst of all, seems like a shotgun approach to banning accounts. To add punishment to injury, they are doing so with not an ounce of courtesy and NO CUSTOMER SERVICE.
"[...] If you have additional questions or concerns not addressed by our policies or help center, you can contact support by replying to this email. "
This part of their email is a joke. I don't know that anyone replying to the Google email has gotten any intelligent reply to their query. And to call this an "appeal" process is even a bigger joke for a company the size of Google.
And no one in this forums argues with Google right to ban accounts and that some accounts should be banned.
The KEY issues and why there's such outrage about it, is this:
- Many accounts are being banned without ANY explanation
- Many of those pose no threat to the Google user experience (which is the reason account are being banned in the first place)
- The absence of any real business process and courtesy in which these accounts are being banned
- And finally, account/people are being banned FOR LIFE? (this has the taste of Siberian jails in the former USSR).
"It's harsh, but I understand it. They'd rather work with the people who work within their system and fit their business model. It's not personal, but merely a business decision. It's easier and more efficient to work with these people than try to rehabilitate or convert the accounts that aren't within their business model. "
Netmeg - this is true in principal, however, does not apply here. Many of the accounts being banned built their business AROUND and in CONJUNCTION with the Google Advertising platform. They're completely aligned business model wise.
"None of us are *entitled* to an AdWords account, particularly if our business model doesn't match Google's. If you're confident yours is a good one, then you need to find another way to market it. If it requires Google to work, and Google doesn't want it - it's not a good model. "
It was good for Google for years and years and now its not? that's total nonsense. This is not a case of 'sudden business model misalignment'!
This is a simple case of HORRIBLE execution by a company that has become extremely arrogant because of its monopoly.
So they start making vague declarations like the opening post. Also my prediction is that the appeal process, if it actually happens, would be slow and generally low quality (as in "they did not even read our domain name in email").
Even if they did manually review and ban every 'bad' account then people like Zohan would just sign up using 'black-hat' methods - meaning it would be a never ending process - a war of attrition without an end using up a lot of staff. The only way round this was to use an programme, and in that case there will always be people caught in the cross fire as the programme is refined.
Google does give you ways round this with replying to the emails, you just have to be persistent - once again, not G's fault - how many of the bad sites are gonna appeal when they know they've broken the guidelines? My guess would be most of them, so it's going to take G a while to work through them all
If we have time machine, do you want to see how then google will treat their customers?
Probably they will call you every day to see if you can make more ads and offer assistance and similar and they will not care if you have deleted affiliate ads and probably will push you to enable them again!
I can see if I purposely tried to scam Google...then it's justified. But I didn't and I even had a Google team our agency works with. They helped me build this client's campaigns over the last 4-5 years! I am just upset that I took Google's advice and recommendations (which helped all these years) for our client's account and then they turn and ban us? Now my team doesn't even respond about my questions on this...we are just ignored for this subject/client.
this isn't Google's fault - they've been FORCED to go down the automatic route
So, you buy an expensive car, and you bring it to the scheduled maintenance every half a year, and you pay your bills. You buy some extras, and you pay your bills. Every penny of it.
Then the manufacturer "has noticed" that you have been speeding in your hometown and refuses -for life-time!- to deal with you. You'd buy another car from him, but no. He doesn't want to do ANY business with you. He won't even discuss the issue with you. Through discussion with other car owners you find out that you have never spoken to a real person anyway (or the real person has been replaced). Almost everything in the company is done by robots.
Now, you'd like to tell the manufacturer that he was wrong about you speeding, and that you'd like to buy another car. But to no avail, he refuses to return your calls. After all, they have too little staff to find out about the speedings going on and to verify manually whether the speeding information was right or wrong. "Most of them are right, and probably all of them were at least driving very very fast. And yes, there may be some wrong accusations, but, you know......"
Would YOU buy a car from THIS manufacturer?
Here's the facts:
1) AdWords has been plagued over recent years with tonnes of low quality sites - really thin content affiliates all selling the same stuff, scammers, information collection sites that pass on details to other companies, work from home stuff etc etc etc
2) Google deals with this by giving these sites low LPQS. Said low quality site owners then just dump the site and start with a new one until they get caught again.
3) Google doesn't want this messing up user experience - if it continued it would be bad news for EVERYONE who uses AdWords as less users means less business
4) Google combats this with a an automatic system which kicks off these sites. It's a new automatic system, so there's some innocents caught in the cross fire
5) Google starts banning these low quality accounts for life - once again an automatic system which will have 'errors'
6) They can't do it without an automatic system as it would be a never ending process taking up loads of staff - from a business point of view that can't be countenanced
7) If you have been accidentally caught you can appeal - and I have seen loads of instances of this happening over the last month - check out the AdWords Support forum and see for yourself
Yes, Google's been rude in the way they've dealt with their customers. Yes, people have been caught out that shouldn't have been caught out.
It had to be done though - hopefully they'll learn from this and do it a better way next time, but IMO it's all been for the greater good
But they havent ..they ( especially the big ones like shopzilla and ebay ) are still all over page one for almost any product search ..so "whitelisting" and immunity from "account termination" has been built in to this "clean up" by Google"..
The user experience has not improved .
Being able to improve ones quality score by upping ones bid always was a crock .
There have been many many many appeals ..few have been accepted ..most have been ignored ..
And the big shopping comparison and B2B sites ( all of which require one to sign up and give ones email details to see their leads properly ) and ebay are still untouched by "automation"..how strange.
Googles stated aim here is to improve the quality of the experience for searchers ..they could do that by removing just 100 sites from adwords ..but they wont because those sites are exempt ..because those sites spend tens of millions each ..not just millions ..
Google is being hypocritical and dishonest .
They can't do it without an automatic system as it would be a never ending process taking up loads of staff - from a business point of view that can't be countenanced
It had to be done though - hopefully they'll learn from this and do it a better way next time, but IMO it's all been for the greater good
It improved nothing ..it just let the bigger scummier higher spending aff companies have a larger share of the pie ..and encouraged them to spend more overall..so they and Google gained ..
Searchers and some legit clean businesses lost ..and some "adwords pros" are making money looking over other peoples "closed accounts" for reasons as to a ban ..what for ? why throw good money after bad ..Google aren't going to let anyone back in on a "hired professional's" word ..and do any hired professionals do this on a "no account reinstatement , charge no fee for looking it over" basis ..
I thought not ..that is like paying for private autopsies at the graveside..they dont bring back the dead ..and only Google know why they killed the accounts ..
and they wont say specifically
1) AdWords has been plagued over recent years with tonnes of low quality sites - really thin content affiliates all selling the same stuff, scammers, information collection sites that pass on details to other companies, work from home stuff etc etc etc
What my 7 years old disabled google adwords account have with this, seriously?
Nothing.
It had to be done though - hopefully they'll learn from this and do it a better way next time, but IMO it's all been for the greater good
For the greater good google monopolly should be banned.
[edited by: Mister_Bogdan at 3:17 pm (utc) on Dec. 4, 2009]
I've mentioned this before but Google employs thousands of what they call "Ad Quality Raters" whose job is to police advertiser's sites and flag those that aren't "quality".
This is just like the job done by their "Quality Raters" on the free search side of things.
It's no secret. Google posts jobs on their own site. Here is a link.
[google.com...]
Here's the job description:
The role: Ads Quality Rater - English - TemporaryAs an Ads Quality Rater, you will be responsible for reporting and tracking the visual quality and content accuracy of Google advertisements. Ads Quality Raters use an online tool to examine advertising-related data of different kinds and provide feedback and analysis to Google. Projects worked on may involve examining and analyzing text, web pages, images, and other kinds of information. You will need an in depth and up-to-date familiarity with English-speaking web culture and media. Additionally, you will apply this knowledge to a broad range of interests and topics. Ads Quality Raters possess excellent written communication skills and web analytic capabilities. You will be required to work 10-20 hours a week on a self-directed schedule.
Not sure that link will stay because of forum rules but since it is to Google's site it may...
My point is that building an algorithm of this complexity requires massive amounts of real life feedback from humans and tens of thousands of samples to base the models on.
Because Google uses humans and their guidelines are entirely subjective in many instances you can't help but have an algorithm that makes huge blunders because it's built on human opinions.
I urge everyone to do a search on "quality raters" and look for the WAHM forums. Their is an entire niche industry about being a search quality rater from home.
>>..so "whitelisting" and immunity from "account termination" has been built in to this "clean up" by Google"..
This part of your post I do agree with - I do think Google haven't been 100% fair about who they apply this too, and I do think that it is an automated system, with a big list of white-listed sites built in.
>>The user experience has not improved
Don't agree, there definitely are far fewer scam sites, malware sites and MFA sites on AdWords form what i can see
>>There have been many many many appeals ..few have been accepted ..most have been ignored ..
I've seen quite a few instances of people getting there low QS raised back up again, or their account ban rescinded - BUT these people were all genuinely caught out accidentally. If a lot of people have appealed and not been accepted it shows to me that a lot of people have been caught correctly
>>And the big shopping comparison and B2B sites ( all of which require one to sign up and give ones email details to see their leads properly ) and ebay are still untouched by "automation"..how strange.
Like I say, I do thin the whitelisting is an issue. Playing devil's advocate though, I can see why some of the really big comparison sites are still up - they offer a lot more features than the basic ones, so the value they add can be a higher. Not saying this is the case for all of them, but in cases like Ebay it certainly is.
>>and some "adwords pros" are making money looking over other peoples "closed accounts" for reasons as to a ban ..what for ? why throw good money after bad ..Google aren't going to let anyone back in on a "hired professional's" word ..and do any hired professionals do this on a "no account reinstatement , charge no fee for looking it over" basis ..
Haven't heard of this myself - they could just do it for free by going to the Adwords Support Forum
