I understand that some of these folks are paying $8 per click!
Is there some system in place by Google to prevent such abuse?!
Thx,
Zeb
This is very true, and it would be interesting to hear a response from PPC people as to whether they have looked into/overcome this issue.
On the ROI issue, I think you can get a very good ROI from PPC - obviously SEO generates 'free' visitors (if you know what I mean) and it is usually time rather than cash that is the cost with SEO, however, if you added up all the hours tweaking sites to get a few places higher in rankings, the costs of SEO visitors is still to be taken into account.
From what I understand, Google and other adwords companies have technology involved to detect spam like this and multiple requests from the same IP address are probably the first to go.
Its always a good idea to check your ref logs and check for this kind of spam yourself.. "othercompetitorsdomain.com" coming to you through adwords alot? Bring the pain on em!
PPC is something that needs to be spoken about more for them to gain credibility.
As for Overture I would say the same, I am not so sure Overture speeks on these boards?
All best
On the other hand, I would be willing to pay slightly more per month if I was charged a flat rate in advance, because I would not have to worry about cheaters, nor would I feel like I was gambling with my money, nor would I feel like I was promoting questionable activities.
Let's face it: it is not illegal to click on your competitors links a couple of times per day. After all, Overture has a procedure in place to catch and stop this, but do they really care?
Well, let's take a look at Overture's motivations:
Stopping fraudulent clicks equals less money for Overture.
Preventing discovery of flaws in the system means more money for Oveture. So Overture's profits most by allowing a certain amount of fraudulent clicks, but never admitting there is a problem by formulating procedures that promote non-disclosure.
In the short run, Overture will profit. In the long run, someone is going to come along and say:
We are going to charge you the same amount per month that Overture is charging you, but we won't be counting clicks. People will still be able to outbid you by paying a higher monthly (flat) rate. No more cheaters!
This new model will surely be utilized by Yahoo or Google in the next year or two. That's my prediction.
It is possible, good potential call, I'll remember your statement.
All best!
Sure it's impression based and not click based; I guess the "impressions" are estimated. And if you are paying a lump sum in advance, surely it can no longer be "pay for click", where you pay according to how many people click. Unless of course its estimated.
So i dont see where the problem is.
Certainly being selfish, I would not like to see the option taken away for us being able to have multiple campaigns costing 10 USD to 30 USD per month which we have now with adwords.
I just cant see a "pay ahead system" being efficient enough to support advertisers who have a <$100 USD spend a month, especially if its spread over many keywords, campaigns, entry pages and such. More likely you will have to spend much more before you even get in the front door. For big spenders, yes, the pay ahead system has merits.
And again as i argued before fraudeulent clicks get factored into your ROI as long as you are logging traffic well and working out your ROI. I really dont care, if 50% of clickers are buying and a campaign is returning a certain ROI altogether whether the other 50% of non-buyers were just not interested, fraudulent or poorly targeted because of poor geo-targeting, ad copy, or keywords.
It IS in the interest of OV, Adwords, Findwhat etc to reduce fraudulent clicking as they are competing with each other. Many customers will decide what system to use depending on their overall ROI (outcomes) rather than perceptions of number of clicks that are fraudulent. The better the ROI for PPC providers customers, the more customers they will attract or retain.
>>Maybe I'm still missing something, but I cant see why you cant already pay in advance - using Premium listings<<
This is a great option, even though it calls for more cash outlay. Unfortunately, depending on your keywords, you may not be able to purchase these ads. My keywords have all been bought out for years.
The model everywhere used to be impression based. PPC was a real improvement on this because it focused closer to results. But, a few cheaters are ruining it for everyone.
And again as i argued before fraudeulent clicks get factored into your ROI as long as you are logging traffic well and working out your ROI.
That may be true in some cases. On the other hand, a concerted effort by 2-3 competitors to click your listing on a regular basis can ruin the ROI. Obviously, if your GP% is high, then you can afford a few cheaters. But if you are selling a product that has highly competitive pricing, then your GP% is going to be lower, and cheaters can tag team you.
And why would they want to tag team you?
1. To make you stop bidding on the keyword.
2. To make you drop your bidding position.
3. To make the cost of the #1 or #2 spot lower for themselves.
Basically, all they have to do is find a dialup connection and hit you with a 20-50% click increase until you give up and pull out. I know for a fact this happens.
I can also see now in some cases how a concerted click campaign can drive you out of the PPC scene! I guess I didnt see it as our area is not that competitive.
I monitor sales real time and compare it to AdWords clicks. Are the stats also real time for AdWords or is there a delay?
The reason I ask is just monitoring today, I show 263 clicks on an offer I have but AdWords only shows 149.
I am hoping this is a sign that AdWords is protecting me from malicious or accidental multiple clicking.
What do you think?
NO
And we can't seem to figure out what the delay might be and when it varies.
Some say 45 minutes to 3 hours and others say 24 hours. Some talk about a FEW days.
Trying to report to clients under those conditions is not possible.
My cost has increased 500%. AOL PROXIES do not help:
<Sorry, no URL's please. Thanks -G>
There is no way out! Their filtering process cannot stop clicking software; which are
assigned different IPs and log properties.
Culprites may be:
1) the top ten sites in the search results.
2) marketing agencies; that are losing business because of the sponsored links..
3) competition
Two weeks ago, I sent google a link to view my log files that showed over 60% of visitors
I received from adwords stayed less then 2 seconds on my home page. I have not gotten a response
yet?
[edited by: grnidone at 9:50 pm (utc) on Feb. 7, 2003]
I also use Kanoodle. More than half the clicks I get from them are not charged (suspected fraudulent). That should be an example for Google.
It's part of doing business on the Net. Dropping single word keywords can sometimes help ROI as singles seem to receive more fraudulent clicks.
Fortunately I'm still making money, but I could be making a lot more. Constant tweaking keeps my ROI up.
