Forum Moderators: martinibuster
The 'Advertise on this site' link is a shortcut that makes it easy for advertisers to run ads on a specific Google partner site. Working in partnership with the website, Google helps the advertiser create an ad and begin running it on that site -- often on the same day.
It looks like a benefit to you but what you gain (if you gain) is peanuts compared with what Google makes from that ad for Adwords services.
oddsod, why do you say that? Here is Googles' policy on PPC and CPM ads
While we can't make any promises about earnings, we do feel that CPM ads offer great earnings potential. Because CPM ads compete against CPC ads in the AdWords auction, we'll always choose the highest-performing ad for your page. If an advertiser wants to specifically target your site, they will need to bid high enough to beat out the CPC ads that are already in the auction in order to show up on your page.
i would use the link in the relevant section of the FAQ... i don't think it should be right there where the ads are.
The TOS forbid you contacting someone who's advertising on your site. So, if you've previously had a good relationship with the small number of advertisers in your niche you now suddenly can't talk to them anymore because they are all belong to Google. Reading the TOS in more detail throws up other niggling issues.
Guys, don't think of this in the narrow sense of how it affects you personally. Think of the wider implications because one day it will be you.
Except that I get 100% of direct ad sales. No commission, no cut, no middleman.
And you get 100% of the hassle of dealing directly with advertizers.
Not every webmaster wants that hassle, for them, this could be a great deal.
Not at all. You are indeed correct in that the advertiser is clicking to advertise on your site. But, he may not even be an advertiser. He's just a visitor you paid for. Now he clicks out of your site to see what this Adwords is all about. Or he could be an advertiser who buys space directly from you at present. He sees the ad, and signs up for Adwords. All very well but in both cases where's your commission for getting Google a new customer who will end up advertising on SERPs and content network? And possibly losing one of your existing customers to Adwords (and getting back 70% of what he used to spend on your site)?
That's a lot of "possibiles". If a person clicks on an "advertise on this site" link, I'm not too worried about that person being a person that is going to give a meaningful click on another part of my site.
That is a pretty clearly labeled link, so a person clicking it would most likely be interested in advertising on your site.
If they are an existing customer, then they probably already wanted to advertise in that google spot (and give me more money), but now they have an easier way to do it.
I sell ads directly to advertisers and I'm not worried in the slightest that they will completely ditch my directly sold ads for google's ads. I sell monthly ad spots which offer a totally different experience than a per click advertising.
I think it's more likely that the person will try out site targeted Google ads on my site and then contact me directly for direct ad space rather than leave the direct paid for ads completely. But that's just my situation.
Keep in mind, this is something that the advertiser could do already, Google is just making it easier for the money to flow to you. Before the advertiser may have just gotten frustrated and decided not to place the ad. I think this is a case of "found money".
Except that they are signing up for Adwords. It looks like a benefit to you but what you gain (if you gain) is peanuts compared with what Google makes from that ad for Adwords services. Even if they don't pay you a commission for getting them a new customer they should pay for the traffic at the average rate that page demands (because they are taking traffic away from you).
You are assuming that the clicks that they take away are somehow these golden visitors. They don't pay you for clicks on the "Ads By Google" (which has 0% chance of making you money), I would think publishers would be jumping for joy at a link that have a much greater than 0% chance of making them money.
I am assuming that these clicks on a clearly labeled link are trying to give me money through a service that Google provides. I have no issues with paying Google to handle the ad serving, payment processing, billing, and customer support for that space on my website.
I have other space on my website that I handle directly and I have no problem outsourcing part of my ad inventory (which I already do through Adsense) and making it easier for an advertiser to pick my site specifically.
Rodney, the original analogy is very accurate if you sell ad space on your site directly to advertisers.
As I mentioned before, I do sell ad space on my site directly to advertisers and I still think my analogy about sold out inventory is a more accurate one.
So, if you've previously had a good relationship with the small number of advertisers in your niche you now suddenly can't talk to them anymore because they are all belong to Google. Reading the TOS in more detail throws up other niggling issues
Do you have any proof to back up this statement?
I don't think there is anything to worry about in regards to advertisers that you already work with that additionally advertise with Google.
But if you have some proof that says otherwise, I'd love to read it. My guess is that is a loose interpetation of a small part of the TOS.
Google is just making it easier for the money to flow to you.
With respect, Rodney, that's a bit naive. They are taking space on my site, using it for something I did not authorise them to do, and not even drawing a limit to how many spaces they'll use. They could have their "Advertise here" self promotion a million times a month and pay me zilch for using my space. Other paying ads I could have had there were sacrificied to run those free ads.
We've already trusted them to put the highest paying ads on our sites. Now if they want to put their own ads on there that's a clear conflict of interest and opens up the possibility they'll help themselves to juicest spots to attract new advertisers to the Adwords program.
>> Do you have any proof to back up this statement?
I don't need proof. The TOS is clear on this point and has only one category of advertisers and you're not allowed to contact them.
BTW, they don't replace "Ads by Google" with "Advertise here". It's in addition to.
With respect, Rodney, that's a bit naive. They are taking space on my site, using it for something I did not authorise them to do, and not even drawing a limit to how many spaces they'll use. They could have their "Advertise here" self promotion a million times a month and pay me zilch for using my space. Other paying ads I could have had there were sacrificied to run those free ads.
I don't think I'm being naive...I think you *might* be a bit paranoid about the implementation.
Do you know that the Advertise on this Site link shows up in an ad block?
It could show up in the same spot as the "Ads By Google", or in a similar fashion. This wouldn't take any revenue away because no paying ads show in that spot.
We've already trusted them to put the highest paying ads on our sites. Now if they want to put their own ads on there that's a clear conflict of interest and opens up the possibility they'll help themselves to juicest spots to attract new advertisers to the Adwords program.
This also sounds a bit like paranoia.
I haven't seen any indication that this is their intent or any indication from past dealings with them that this would be the way they would go. It just doesn't make any sense.
Don't forget, Google gets paid by the click as well. Why would they take revenue away from themselves like that.
I don't need proof. The TOS is clear on this point and has only one category of advertisers and you're not allowed to contact them.
Actually, the part of the TOS that I see says that you can't contact the advertisers about the Google Ads, not any direct sold ads on your site.
Doesn't seem as clear as you make it.
3. Communications Solely With Google. You agree to direct to Google, and not to any advertiser, any communication regarding any Ad(s) or Link(s) displayed in connection with Your Site(s).
Doesn't seem like a problem to me to contact advertisers about ads that you sold them directly (as the TOS doesn't govern the the ads you sell directly, only the ads you sell through Google).
Oh my god. Now that would appeal to me. Ebay does
something similar. Just imagine passively developing
this huge downline of new adwords customers ...
Go Google. Blow everyone else away with something new!
Except that I get 100% of direct ad sales. No commission, no cut, no middleman.
You'll still get 100% of direct ad sales.
Rodney wrote:
I sell ads directly to advertisers and I'm not worried in the slightest that they will completely ditch my directly sold ads for google's ads. I sell monthly ad spots which offer a totally different experience than a per click advertising.
I don't sell ads directly to advertisers, but I started working with a specialized ad network/rep firm about a month ago for display ads, and--as you say--those ads offer a totally different experience than AdSense CPC ads do. The two forms of advertising coexist nicely with each other and with site-targeted AdSense CPM ads. (The banner display ads tend to be purchased by national tourist offices, international airlines, cruise lines, hotel chains, etc., while the AdSense ads tend to be purchased by mom-and-pop vendors or e-commerce sites.)
[edited by: europeforvisitors at 7:51 pm (utc) on Sep. 29, 2005]
They are taking space on my site, using it for something I did not authorise them to do, and not even drawing a limit to how many spaces they'll use.It keeps going back to that. If it is your site and you do not authorise them to do it, why let them run ads on your site?
I think it's a great idea, and it should do a better job of attracting advertisers than the current "Ads by Goooogle" does.
I'm with you EFV! I'd love to see this go from beta to live.
>> This wouldn't take any revenue away because no paying ads show in that spot.
Do people click on it and leave your site? Does it never cost anyone money to get that traffic in the first place?
>> I haven't seen any indication that this is their intent
At this early stage in the beta the only place you could find any indication of their intent is in their annoucement of how it works. Hardly the stage to proclaim that this is really a sneaky way of getting more Adwords customers without paying affiliate commissions.
>> Don't forget, Google gets paid by the click as well. Why would they take revenue away from themselves like that.
They aren't taking revenue away from themselves. They're taking it away from you. And getting free advertising. And using you to promote Adwords in general without the recompense others pay.
NewQuestions has a good suggestion. Maybe I'm paranoid. Maybe the the intent is really above board. Give us a small percentage of the new business we bring you and we'll be less inclined to see this as a backdoor to getting new Adwords clients for the SERPs.
>> You'll still get 100% of direct ad sales.
Huh?! Google don't pay out 100%. And, if Google takes my advertisers, I don't get 100%.
woop, well done. One original point, at last! :)
It was before my morning coffee but I believe it was set up like this: The "advertise on this site" link was on the bottom left and Ads by Google(not my usual Ads by Gooooogle) was on the bottom right spot(where it usually goes). So, it didn't take up an ad unit and didn't replace Ads by Google or Ads by Gooooogle.
When/if it is implimented, I hope it is done in good taste. Small changes to the ads can make a very substantial difference in CTR as you all well know. Perhaps I am just being paranoid - it's just human nature to resist change...
I suppose I can live with it provided:
1) It doesn't take any of the ad block space.
2) It replaces Ads by Gooooooooooogle instead of working in addition to it.
I know it's rhetorical question, the answer is because they pay better than anybody else out there. If you don't want the extra stuff Google has started doing you can choose to earn less with other programs but this "I want to have my cake and eat it too" mentality has gone a bit overboard in my opinion.
IN ADDITION to Ads by Gooooooooooooooooooooogle, the new link appears. I must say this is repulsive at best. It looks very, very poor to me.
The example I have seen is the 300x250 ad and it is formatted like so:
The periods below represent blank space.
-------------------------------------------------------
¦Ads by Goooooogle . . . . . . . Advertise on this site
¦
¦Advert number one txt txt txt
¦Advert number one txt txt txt
¦Advert number one txt txt txt
¦
¦Advert number two txt txt txt
¦Advert number two txt txt txt
¦Advert number two txt txt txt
[edited by: NoLimits at 8:27 pm (utc) on Sep. 29, 2005]
...but you would get paid a referal fee if the advertizer signed up with Adwords even if their ads didn't run on your site.
Anyone else recall that?
You can't contact the advertiser about any ads or links on your site. No mention there about those being Adsense ads or links. I'll let the lawyers argue the small print.
Actually, the print is not that small at all :)
It's all explained in paragraph 1 of the Terms and Conditions. Ads and Links are clearly defined terms in regards to the contract:
Google may serve third party and/or Google provided advertisements (such Google-served advertisements, collectively, "Ads"), related Google queries and/or Ad search box (collectively, “Links”), and Google Web and/or Site search results (collectively, "Search Results)
It's all there in black and white.
Do people click on it and leave your site? Does it never cost anyone money to get that traffic in the first place?
This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the point you were trying to make when I replied to your post:
Other paying ads I could have had there were sacrificied to run those free ads.
This statement is not true because you couldn't have had any other ads in that spot (unless you removed adsense all together from that spot).
They aren't using your ad blocks.
...opens up the possibility they'll help themselves to juicest spots to attract new advertisers to the Adwords program.
The juciest spots are the adblocks, this "advertise on this site" only shows up outside of the ad space area.
They aren't taking revenue away from themselves. They're taking it away from you.
If they take revenue away from me in the form of a click, they are also taking it away from themselves.
They are giving me extra revenue by allowing an advertiser to target my site in a block that is already showing adsense.
I seem to recall at one point there was some talk of an Adwords affiliate system that would work something like this........but you would get paid a referal fee if the advertizer signed up with Adwords even if their ads didn't run on your site.
Anyone else recall that?
Yep, I remember a post about that in this forum actually. I think it might have included an incentive for sigining up new Adsense publishers as well.
I think the program exists, but it is either in Beta or by invitation only.
It would be extremely unfair to allow some publishers to profit from the link, and to not reward others.
the first instance of this that i see on my ads, i'll be sending them an email asking it to be removed from my site.
just more clutter along with the crappy "ads by goooooooooooogle"
If they take revenue away from me in the form of a click, they are also taking it away from themselves.
They aren't taking away "a" click. They are taking away thousands of visitors (possibly over years to come) some of whom would have earned the publisher money by clicking other ads on his site. The myopic view that the only clicks Google could possibly take away from you are clicks that would earn them money anyway is a fundamental misunderstanding of the whole concept and the likely reason for your Panglossian trust in the beast.
That they are giving you extra revenue is the red herring you've fallen for. In the guise of allowing an advertiser to target your page they are, in effect, getting a much, much higher value in the free advertising of the wider Adwords network... a marketing move that will have the not altogether unexpected result of an expansion of their advertiser base. If the intent was rose-tinted where's the commission for publishers? Or at least the option to opt-out?
woop01, I'll have you know that I walk the walk. On Monday I'm removing Adsense on the site where this touting for business would be unacceptable to me and where it competes directly with my selling adspace. Why do I still run the ads? Because Google takes liberties without any prior consultation or warning and ads can't always be removed in seconds (despite the TOS having this expectation). It will take me several hours to remove the Adsense code from this site and I won't have the time till Monday.
[edited by: oddsod at 10:49 pm (utc) on Sep. 29, 2005]
It would be extremely unfair to allow some publishers to profit from the link, and to not reward others.
No publishers are going to profit from the link as it pertains to an affiliate program (or getting an incentive for signing up an adwords advertiser or adsense publisher).
The program that I was talking about is a completely separate program that allows people invited to the program to run banners or links on their site that advertise the adsense program and get paid a commission.
The banners/links are totally separate from an adsense block.
Google already uses the adsense block to advertise the adsense program (I've seen Adsense ads to get people to signup for Adsense on webmaster related sites). But those ads are paid per click just like any other ad in an ad block (at least that's what Google says in its terms).
They aren't taking away "a" click. They are taking away thousands of visitors (possibly over years to come) some of whom would have earned the publisher money by clicking other ads on his site.
That is a BIG assumption that 1000's of visitors who click a clearly labeled link that says "advertise on this site" will be lost forever. Never to return to your site and earn you money. That those 1000's of clicks on a very clear link would have gone to other paying ads on your site is a pretty bold assumption which I don't think has any data to support it.
Too many "maybes" for me.
The myopic view that the only clicks Google could possibly take away from you are clicks that would earn them money anyway is a fundamental misunderstanding of the whole concept and the likely reason for your Panglossian trust in the beast.
The paranoid view that those 1000's of clicks are clicks that would have otherwise clicked on paying ads is quite hubristic.
If you distrust "the beast" so much, then maybe you should rethink your relationship with it.
That they are giving you extra revenue is the red herring you've fallen for. In the guise of allowing an advertiser to target your page they are, in effect, getting a much, much higher value in the free advertising of the wider Adwords network...
So you are looking for a relationship where only YOU benefit and the other party will stand nothing to gain? Good luck.
A marketing move that will have the not altogether unexpected result of an expansion of their advertiser base.
Sounds like a win-win. They get more money, I get more money.
If the intent was rose-tinted where's the commission for publishers? Or at least the option to opt-out?
I guess you'd have to ask Google for the answers to that. Who knows, they may add it in the future.
The publisher is getting increased ad revenue where they wouldn't have before.
You can always opt-out if you feel the business relationship isn't working for you.
Nobody is saying everything is rosy, but I just don't see the evil beast that you do. If I did, I know I wouldn't waste time in a forum supporting a beast. I'd move on to other business partners that I trust.
Although a commission or something would be nice, I welcome the idea as I am going to have more time to do other things ;)
One of the primary reasons that I moved to google was the ability to control default ads and maximize revenue. I am not in the business of supplying free advertising for anyone...let alone google. They want to use my website to advertise their program...then pay me for it...or allow me to decide if I want to take the risk. Dropping their advertising on my site without notice, with or without a return is high handed of them. Sure according to the TOS they can do this....but perhaps a notification of this change of current policies would have been in order.
So what are you going to do IF the percentage of current ads moves into the 20-50% google adwords join up types? How do you measure this under the current limited information google supplies? Today a link...tomorrow default ads? Come on Google show some respect for your publishers....at least enough to tell us what is going on...some upper limits of this (% maximum shown)? Use of the publisher base to expand their own revenue I guess is a natural development, they have the tecnology to accomplish this and WILL take advantage of this ability. The current situation to me is just the tip of the iceberg.
Maybe a better question for the Adwords Forum.
I am getting older and don't have until the 12th of never to realize my dreams. Google should play fair with their loyal white hat publishers who don't game the system. These are the very bread and butter of the adsense content program so it makes no sense for Google to lower our clicks to benefit themselves in the long run.
Ann
