Forum Moderators: martinibuster
I run one of largest travel websites on the web. What would you veteran webmasters do in this situation, assuming you have no honest idea as to who is behind the "invalid clicks" that were supposedly generated. I'm not interested in one line off the cuff comments. I'm only interested in real "in my shoes" replies.
My partners and I are by no means rich men and women as individuals.
I wonder why the poster's got 2 months of unpaid earnings? If I earn $150,000 a month, I definitely would not let that sit on Google's account. I would make sure that that money goes to my account immediately, and not accumulate at Google. Imagine, if the poster got the first month, then at least the poster already had $150K in his/her account - and lost only the other $150K+ after G banned the account.
Just wondering on that point. Especially if they are by no means rich. (BTW - $150K a month is $1.8 million, which in my books can already be considered "rich" (not filthy rich, just rich)
[edited by: elguapo at 2:37 am (utc) on Aug. 28, 2005]
Its a reply to a suggestion I made.
What would you veteran webmasters do in this situation, assuming you have no honest idea as to who is behind the "invalid clicks" that were supposedly generated. I'm not interested in one line off the cuff comments. I'm only interested in real "in my shoes" replies.
I've been the victim of click attacks on two different occasions. In each case, I e-mailed Google about the spike in clicks and revenues, they said "thanks," and that was that.
Once or twice before that (back in 2003 or early 2004), I got automated warnings that invalid clicks had been detected on my account; I wrote back to say that (a) I hadn't clicked on my ads; (b) I could provide server logs if that would help them track down the source; and (c) an examination of my site would make it clear that I was in business for the long haul and wouldn't be foolish enough to endanger my AdSense account with fraudulent clicks. Google Support sent a boilerplate reply that said, "OK, no problem, but don't generate any invalid clicks" or something to that effect.
As a a colleague in the travel sector, I'm curious to see the site that aroused Google's suspicions. How about StickyMailing the URL, since you weren't able to include it in your profile?
I wonder why the poster's got 2 months of unpaid earnings?
Because by the the time it happened (24th), G had not wired July earnings. So there you have all of july and 24 days in August.
Take my story with a grain of salt, as I know you will. Know in the back of your minds that huge unpaid AdSense earnings are a liability, regardless if you're an AdSense veteran or not. Whether your cousin Jim Bob clicks your ads or not, it makes no difference, remember that. You are not protected from "invalid clicks", why you ask, because no one is. Yes, that's right Mr. I have an ultra clean white hat website with filtered traffic. So do I.
I don't personally believe that Google is in the business of biting off its own nose to spite its face - so I do think they believe they have very valid grounds for the termination. (And the fact that they withheld last month's payment should have alerted you to that probability.) It now falls on you and your partners to convince them otherwise. We don't have enough information to judge, and even if we did... we can't reinstate you.
Google terminated my account with $304,000 [2 months ]in unpaid earnings. Have I successfully been paid these types of sums before by AdSense, yes.Have they actually said they are not going to pay you, or have they just not paid you yet? They may be deciding on a suitable % after researching clicks or it may be a review that will be lifted later. Wait for a real reply, try the phone, do whatever to contact a real person. It could be a combination of the typical lag between sending of email to it actually being read by a human combined with the weekend.
If someone owed me that kind of money I would think my every move 3 times. I think this is big BS.
So....any theorists have a clue what site it is?
That's what stickies are for...hehe.
This thread started on 10:52 pm on Aug 27, 2005 and that was the time when most payments were already released. If the ban had come on august 27, the payment for july had been released by then. It means if the ban was imposed, only 1 month earnings shud have gone, not two months.
If it was week or 10 days before 27th, then you posted it a little late than this happened in the forum. People usually come here in hours of getting a ban letter and this delay is possible but unusual. You may be busy interacting with google i guess. but then if no reply with them, you waited for some days before putting it for discussion here .
You had posted on 16th that you have a low eCPM. If you had a low eCPM, then your account was working on 16th . - right?
The huge amounts you have mentioned as earings from a travel portal means that your portal would have multiple sources of income , not just adsense. I dont know of any large portals capable of making $150,000 per month who do not have alternative sources of income. This means , I assume that your income is far above $150,000 per month. Still you dont have a lawyer.
Gooogle , if it pays you $150,000 per month, then must be itslf earning a huge chunk on yur earnings from advertisers. They will not kick you without any research.
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Moreover, you are a new user apparantly, joining on august 23, 2005 and yoru first post talks of significant eCPM decrease from August 16 .
So assumingly, your eCPM reduced around 16th and within 2 weeks you were banned.
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You also seem to be well versed with adsense and adwords.
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I still see a lot of gray areas ... dont you?
Also seemed to be concerned about more than just click fraud. First described loss for "I" then on this post described the loss for "We".
Standard email for a site making $150.00 yes, $150K don't think so.
IMHO
So what he's saying is possible. Don't let the size of what he's claiming make you think Google treats it any differently. All publishers are treated as publishers regardless of earnings (it's the premium publishers who get the good treatment and a phone number to call).
I will be frank and say that it seems to me his real reason for posting this here seems to be nothing more than revenge against Google via forum propaganda.
It's certainly not to "seek advice." Go seek a lawyer.
- the operator of "one of the biggest travel sites" on the web
- generating $150k+ a month from Adsense
- joined WW two weeks ago?
I don't buy it either. How'd he get so successful without WW?
Just doesn't make sense...
it would seem to me you & your staff would need to spend a lot of time generating these supposedly illegal clicks to accumulate that much $$$
I believe the term used was "invalid clicks," which can cover a multitude of sins.
If but for no other reason this sort of thing is very bad PR for them.
May I also point out that the owners or operators of these forums can also become implicated insomuch that they are republishing was is prima facie defamatory material against a public corporation.
The claim could be valid, if he has high paying searchterms on a website that gets mega visits a month, $150K is possible as we all know. At say $20 a pop it can mount up!
[edited by: James at 7:24 am (utc) on Aug. 28, 2005]
Would it be too much to ask to invite ASA to comment?I doubt if any Google rep will ever reply (nor should they) in a thread where legal actions have been brouht up.
for 300k I wouldn't be wasting time on a forum I would be getting legal advice
Ditto. This thread is becoming an urban legend. I've already seen it linked to on three different forums. Do you think Google killed JFK?
You might also want to ask yourself:
Have you received similar large amount (don't have to be same but +/- few k) checks from google?
What was the amount of checks you received the months before this issue.
Keep the web log for your website during this and previous months, it case goes to court, it might come in handy.
If but for no other reason this sort of thing is very bad PR for them.
And that is the exact thing this guy is trying to create, he is just someone who got banned and when he realized that he wouldn't be getting back in the program he invented all this drama hoping to cause a scene and hurt Google in some way.
Just take a look at his first thread and then at this one, it doesn't make sense that he started out asking about why Google bans people to now claiming that he has lost $300k and his rep won't reply and all this nonsense
Please, people, don't fall in his trap
Sure Google can make a mistake. Sure This could be a shill for Yahoo. Sure he could have generated invalid clicks. Sure he could have been a victim of an organised click attacks.
And I am certainly not going to believe that without WW, once can't make that kind of money. WW is a great help, probably the best, but it sure is not the only way.
Essentially, we haven't got any data to judge anything either way. So why keep repeating the same things over and over again?
Of course, I wish ASA would just step in, say that they will looking into the matter whether the emails from Google are canned or not, and if you are not satisfied with that, you could perhaps look at the legal options. (A sure way to end a meaningless discussion?)
EDIT: nevermind... figured it out, you mean webmasterworld
I may be very 'uninformed' but it would seem to me you & your staff would need to spend a lot of time generating these supposedly illegal clicks to accumulate that much $$$
That's right.
And unless this publisher intentionally made a system for generating clicks or any other way of inflating his AS income, I think it would be very irresponsible for Google to terminate such an account just like that.
It is hard to believe for someone getting so many natural clicks to be involved in a few $$ more risky deal.
On the other side if Google discovered large fraud by this publisher, it would be right for them to SUE HIM and ask the money back for all that time.
But that would involve searching for former advertisers for reimbursing the money and other hassles.
In that case he should be happy to get away with only two unpaid months.
adamallen: unless WW shares IP info with G, I should remain anonymous here
You are not anonymous at the Googleplex. I wonder how much results the following pseudo SQL query would return:
SELECT * FROM customer_database
WHERE account_disabled NEAR "Aug 24" AND eCPM_decrease near "Aug 16" AND customer_period NEAR "2 years" and customer_state IS "premium"
SORT BY amount_due
The good thing asp4bunnies mentioned is that Google does not seem to have different procedures for large accounts when it comes to invalid clicks. It looks like there is no class justice at Google which is really good for those small publishers fearing that their account may be closed for whatever reason. It seems that Google is treating all banned accounts in the same manner.
Adamallen, as I mentioned above, there is no such thing as an anonymous AdSense publisher, so it wouldn't hurt you if you gave some more identifiable information like a URL in your profile. And maybe you could shed some light on the following questions which have gone through my head since you started this thread:
My first impressions was that this post was 100% however having taken time to dig a little deeper.... Im not so sure.
If youd just lost $300000 would you spend time posting here?
