Forum Moderators: martinibuster
I run one of largest travel websites on the web. What would you veteran webmasters do in this situation, assuming you have no honest idea as to who is behind the "invalid clicks" that were supposedly generated. I'm not interested in one line off the cuff comments. I'm only interested in real "in my shoes" replies.
After reading from folks in the industry in this thread, it's hard to believe the story based on the stats necessary to accomplish that many clicks.
Can anyone sticky me the other sites talking about this?
I'd be interested in seeing more opinions on it, even if it has been beaten to death...hehe.
What business model is Google using, communist Russia. "You're guilty because we say you are, don't ask why, you don't have the right".
If Juan from Argentina clicks your ads 2343 times in one day, why can't you have that information to protect yourself from Juan, or sue Juan.
What's next Google, sweat shops in Indonesia.
Would you people please refrain from such nonsense statements?
I understand that education from mainstream media is hard to fight, but some free flow of information (read:internet) could have at least some influence up to now.
There is no substantial difference between communist Russia and most of the "free democratic" countries in the world.
It is just the level of freedom perception.
Juan from Argentina probably has no competition in the US or Europe, so not a right person to be used as an example.
The same for "organized click groups" from India, China..., so often heard here.
Please stay away from such expressions as it doesn't bring any quality arguments in any discussion.
And please don't accuse ME of bringing politics here.
Back to the Google's rights: yes, they can do whatever you signed for, being inside other legal boundaries.
Even to kick you out without valid explanation.
Many questions were posted here as why he asked for an opinion in the forum, instead searching for the legal assistence.
Could it be, that the real question should be: "Is it possible that Google uncovered the fraud?"
europeforvisitors, you run Google ads on your site. How do you honestly feel about your rights as an AdSense publisher? Don't you ever sweat a little over a possible ban from Google? Do you realize you will have no means to defend yourself?
I've already discussed my own experiences in message #33.
No one in this forum will believe you didn't pull a quick one over Google. That seems to be the general consensus here, if you were banned, you deserved it.
You're a newcomer here (unless you've just rejoined under a new handle), so you obviously haven't had time to read the many, many "I've been dumped" threads where terminated publishers have finally admitted to violating the TOS or have had their inconsistencies exposed. (I remember one amusing case where a guy proclaimed his innocence, only to have an incriminating post in another thread pointed out to him.)
It's certainly possible that a few innocent publishers have been terminated for reasons beyond their control, and indeed I've often said that the decision to terminate a publisher is a business decision, and that Google isn't a court of law. For example, if you had a forum devoted to criticizing the Church of Aphrodite and you were repeatedly subjected to click attacks by angry Aphroditeites, you might get terminated--especially if Google's share of your ad revenues didn't cover the maintenance expense for your account. And no, you wouldn't be able to defend yourself, because the issue wouldn't be whether you were guilty or innocent--it would be whether your account was profitable (or at least not a chronic money-loser) for Google.
Still, for every innocent publisher who gets caught in Google's crosshairs, there are almost certainly many, many more who have brought on their own troubles through ignorance, thoughtlessness, or greed. See:
[webmasterworld.com...]
Despite my new "handle", I've been around the boards for years.
So why the new "handle"? What was wrong with the old one?
[edited by: europeforvisitors at 5:44 pm (utc) on Aug. 28, 2005]
Why do the senior member here always spin the discussion towards the "dirty publisher" that may or may not be disproved.
We are already 100 posts discussing the rights of publishers and it is not my impression that the discussion is killed by the participation of senior members.
I am running a brick and mortar company for 13 years now. It is my experience that there are sometimes situations where a business relation is not profitable anymore. Not necessarily because there is guilt of any of the parties, but because the interests of the parties diverge. Both Google and the publisher are equal, and they both have the right to terminate the agreement at any time, without informing the other party of the reason. And sometimes there is a moment when one of the parties uses his right to end the agreement.
Adamallen also had the right to switch to another advertising network before he was banned from AdSense. Based on the estimated 70/30 share that publishers receive from the AdWords money, this would mean about $70,000 per month earnings loss for Google. If this were the case, AdSenseAdvisor probably wouldn't start a thread here complaining about publishers running away without notice, they would take their loss and continue business as usual.
The discussion here is primary fueled by the large amount of $304,000 that is unpaid, but we don't know the outcome of the story yet. Suzyvirtual--who knows this hell from her own experience--told us that Google paid the previous month, eventhough the account was disabled. Based on the information by adamallen we are assuming that Google won't pay the unpaid sum, but we do not know.
People should stand together and demand more publisher rights, not sure why everyone here seems to think more is less?
We were offered a choice to sign the contract/TOS or not to do it. It is as simple as that.
Besides, I think most people don't feel bad regarding their relationships with Google, it is STILL the best paying system on the net today, so it is hard to expect solidarity with some questionable cases.
I am not saying that I do completely agree with their policies (their technical, EPC calculating senseless solutions are driving me mad), but they have full rights to do whatever is in the contract.
I remember a worse case with Paypal, where many members were banned, their money frozen (stole) and yet, despite a large group of victims and winning lawsuits, most other members didn't believe them (or even if they did) enough to go into solidary boycott.
The things are better now with ebay, but it is still unregulated financial institution, on the edge of the law (probably the other side), leader in internet payment systems and most people are happy with them.
we can discuss optimising and blending and a thousand other techniques for improving income but at the end of the day, if you have enough traffic, you can just sit on your ass (like me) and watch the money roll in ....that is something nobody can knock.
While rare, the numbers he's posted can be attained from a website created in your home office, w/o staff, legal advice, etc. Again rare, but we've seen high-schoolers become millionaires via their websites.
I don't make as much as Adam reports to making, but I don't consider myself a small-fry either. I generate 1k+ AdSense clicks/day and AdSense isn't the bulk of my income. If something like this happened to myself, this is one of the first places I'd look to for advice.
While I don't consider myself a complete novice, my ability to generate income far exceeds my abilities as a sys admin. I'd be overwhelmed at trying to find the root of the problem myself... especially considering that my log files run several GB/day. While not quite the ideal place, this would be one of the first places I'd come to for help w/ the logs (although I'd be a lil more open... "here are my log files, have a ball & help me out.")
I can't be the only one here w/o legal, financial, and tech advice on speed dial? I've done fine thus far w/ WW.
Or is this my wake-up call?
