Forum Moderators: martinibuster
I would like to contact these advertisers directly and pitch my own PPC plan to them... lots less than Google would charge them for adsense. I would include text links to their site, and capture the passthrough data and bill them monthly.
Now here's the rub: If I were adsense, I would immediately BAN any adsense publisher who undercut me by going directly to the advertiser that I originally supplied them with.
Maybe I'm just being lazy and not examining the TOS well enough. But, I want to throw this out there as a topic to hear what others have to say about it.
Communications Solely With Google. You agree to direct to Google, and not to any advertiser, any communication regarding any Ad(s) displayed in connection with Your Site(s)."
I suppose you could argue that "any Ad(s)" refers only to existing AdSense ads, and not to future non-AdSense ads, but I doubt if Google would accept that interpretation. :-)
Plus, once I was no longer an adsense publisher, I could approach any advertiser I wanted. I wouldn't be bound by the TOS anymore. Right?
Communications Solely With Google. You agree to direct to Google, and not to any advertiser, any communication regarding any Ad(s) displayed in connection with Your Site(s)."
I can't think of a single reason why you couldn't contact the advertiser directly and suggest that the did a special ad campaign on your site.
Also, I have pre-existing affiliate relationships with advertisers who are now showing ads on my sites through AdSense. I don't consider it a conflict of interest. And there are other merchants with affiliate programs whose ads are showing on my sites that I don't have an affiliate relationship with, but would consider pursuing. Based on my interpretation of the AdSense docs, I can approach merchants for any relationship I want. I haven't done so to date because the time required by both the merchant and I to implement something well would be prohibitive and more risky for the merchant. YMMV.
Q2: If you're going to charge these advertisers "lots less" than they pay Google, what's the point of doing this?
Q1: What if it doesn't work and you have to say goodbye to AdSense revenue anyway?
I am thankful for my adsense revenue... but I am not particularly impressed. I haven't decided anything yet, but like anything else, it may be worth the risk.
Q2: If you're going to charge these advertisers "lots less" than they pay Google, what's the point of doing this?
First, Predictablility is a good reason. I can accurately predict my traffic (relative to accurately NOT predicting Adsense revenue, regardless of traffic.]
Also, if it works, I can manage my own growth potential.
Next... I don't have to "conform" to adsense rules. I only have to follow the arrangements I have with the advertisers
Those are only a few reasons. I could brainstorm more.
Just make sure you have a plan B (just in case!)
Remember that through Adsense, you are only getting a % of total amount the advertiser -- the exact amount of which has been speculated and disclosed in the IPO papers. Even if you offer a lesser CPC rate than what they would have paid in Adwords, you won't share the 50% or whatever the Adsense cut is with G, so you can potentially make more money from that one advertiser.
For example:
At $0.50/click for 100 clicks, advertiser pays $50 to Adwords. With G's 50% cut, your takehome pay is only $25.
If you contract with the advertiser directly and offer them a discout - say $0.35/click. For the same number of clicks, your take home -- which is 100% yours -- is $35.
Still more money.
Of course, it will work if you have a number of advertisers in your sector; where the loss of one or 5 advertising on your site directly will not be felt as there are 30 more or so advertisers waiting in the wings to be seen in your site through Adsense.
Of course, it takes time to contact them directly. Plus, you need to have an idea whether your traffic really converts well for them.
P.S. Sorry, Born User, but I do not understand your arguments about "predictibility" and "growth potential". IMO things will be significantly LESS predictable once you are selling advertising directly.
Plus, you need to have an idea whether your traffic really converts well for them.
And more importantly, *the advertiser* needs to believe that if you're approaching them with a PPC, CPM or flat sponsorship proposition. If a publisher is trying to attract advertisers who are savvy enough and have the funds to participate in PPC through AdWords, then they probably should expect the advertiser is going to request statistics (possibly via their own system or 3rd party), details about fraud detection, procedures to mitigate the risk that they'll be sent junk and bogus traffic and traffic that doesn't convert, etc. The infrustructure and processes to establish and maintain an advertising system that advertisers will trust and want to spend the time pursuing isn't what I'd call trivial and neither is the time and knowledge required to do sales, marketing, billing, support and customer management, but that's just my take. It's a different story when you're talking about throwing a banner up for a flat monthly fee for a local merchant who's not particularly knowledgable - at least in my experience.
So if you are planning to approach advertisers directly, or if they go to you directly, then be prepared to provide the features that would enable them to monitor their campaigns. There are a lot of banner/text advertising management software out there that can help you out a great deal (beware though as some are bandwidth hogs).
We do Google and also sell our own ads (banners, text, skys, etc). Sometimes, our advertisers are also Adwords advertisers. We turn off their campaigns on our site if they are showing up in Adsense, so they won't be double served on our pages. They appreciate that. But we don't have time to run after each and every advertiser that runs in our Adsense. We figure that if their ads are doing well on our site, they'd come to us.
This guy wants to sell more advertising on his site, and he has solved his main problem of where could he get advertisers. Of course, Adsense is perfect: (a) they are clearly targeted to their site; and (b) they advertise and may have more resources to advertise.
Now, you need to think of ways how you could lure them away from Adwords and advertise on your site directly. What can you offer them that can give them better return for their buck?
Now, you need to think of ways how you could lure them away from Adwords and advertise on your site directly. What can you offer them that can give them better return for their buck?
That's really the burdoning question. I'd have to have an angle.
This is a great thread. All the opinions are very valuable. Sounds like there are folks out there who have already tried this.
Then again, Adsense is my primary source of income. I live in a nice house, bunch of kids, suburban lifestyle. I wouldn't want to ruin it. But, as I get more eggs, I need more baskets. I have to diversify. I would definitely want to proceed with extreme caution.
I charge a flat-rate per month, so there is no incentive for click-fraud. They like the fact that they don't have to question the traffic I send their way.
From a publisher point of view, I have a freedom to experiment with ad style and placement without fear of triggering some flag that gets my account turned off. If I send a significantly higher volume of traffic, I just re-negotiate the rates. I know I'm getting more from these advertisers than I would be if it was going through AdSense.
There are definite pluses and minuses to each scenario, but I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from giving it a try.
We were running flat rate advertising for some advertisers that also appeared later through Adsense. The difference is that for particular advertisers who have an excellent fit with our visitors, we can provide much more flexible advertising than the Adsense ads. ever could.
For instance, we run pre-sell / information pages about the advertiser, whereas the Adsense ads are just a click-through. Our visitors recognise the
difference and obviously value it because the CTR is way higher for our flat rate ads. compared to Adsense ads. The advertisers get their logo out there and will pay for this.
Being out of the US, I see "opportunities" all the time, i.e. advertisers who are clearly targetting only the US and wasting their money should a foreigner click. Offering PPC *management* services is different from *selling* a competing form of PPC advertising.
The most annoying part was that they were probably clicking on my listing in order to get to my site - i.e. these cold calls were costing me cash money.
Google cannot limit communication between any two parties. I am disgusted that Google would even have the nerve to put that in the TOS.
It is ridiculous that g won't allow you to carry ads for any advertisers who have used adwords (Is that Possible? Reasonable?).
Google doesn't say that, at least not in so many words. However, Google does have the right to cancel your account for any reason, just as you do. So you're welcome to pursue advertisers whose AdSense ads have appeared on your site, but you won't have recourse (or even legitimate grounds for complaint) if Google chooses to stop working with you.
How can they tell that you actually found the advertiser through Adsense? These are the same advertisers that you see when you do a search for your keywords.
Unless G revises their TOS to say that publishers are not allowed to display any form of targeted advertiser, and their advertisers must never advertise on publisher sites, then that's the day you worry.
Our goal should be to diversify sources of income, and not just put all eggs in the Adsense basket. If that means selling your advertising space directly, then by all means, do so. G recognizes that they cannot demand exclusivity from their publishers.
Google would have difficulty proving how you became aware of an advertiser and whether you had a pre-existing relationship with the advertiser.
Publishers negotiating directly with advertisers wouldn't make a dent in Google's AdSense revenue.
The backlash associated with demanding and enforcing exclusivity would be strong.
Yes, yes, I know that Google can boot you for any reason they see fit, but would they ever demand and enforce exclusivity? Let's look at an extreme scenario and then think about it. A publisher has a network of sites - some are niche, some are general topic. Over the course of a month, 10k different AdWords advertisers' ads appear on the publisher's sites. The publisher already had direct and affiliate advertising in place with 200 of them and is interested in pursuing more advertising from a handful of these advertisers. Boot him for already working with 200? Boot him for wanting to work with 10 more? I don't think so.
Quite simply, when you cold-call an AdWords advertiser and try to get them to pay you by the click...
(a) you are most likely going to be turned down because the advertiser has never heard of you, and
(b) the ADVERTISER might alert Google to your tactics, especially if they see that the site is also an AdSense publisher.
What would Google do if they found out you were poaching their clients? I don't know. All I know is what *I* would do - and that's kick the poacher's butt out of the program.
Why not just kick me out because i am 6 feet tall?
I have always thought of Google as a free thinking company that promotes education and good things like that, but over the past couple months i have seen them turn into a schiester like business with no reguard to individual advancement. They want people to play by their rules or they will break your knees.
I am getting quite fed up with this stupid language in the Adsense TOS already.
I am getting quite fed up with this stupid language in the Adsense TOS already.
In that case, why not show them?
