Forum Moderators: martinibuster
Unless you are happy about this, I suggest you move on over to
[webmasterworld.com...]
and voice your concerns.
[webmasterworld.com...]
Key quote:
"The primary means of generating our index is via our free crawl, using our new Yahoo! Slurp crawler. Yahoo! Slurp discovers pages by following links on the web. We update our index with a daily crawl to gather newly created and fast-changing URLs, as well as our main crawl which updates our index incrementally twice per week.
"We supplement this free crawl with the paid inclusion program, which allows us to add dynamic database content and other content that we could not otherwise discover and crawl. Currently less than 1% of our index is content that is included via our inclusion programs."
I'd suggest that any further discussion of Yahoo PFI take place in the Yahoo forum, since it isn't directly related to AdSense.
Site Match is all about AdSense publishers becoming second class citizens. Also, Tim may talk, but I'd like to see an official press release from Site Match about this.
The only link I have been to about this
[content.overture.com...]
Says absolutely NOTHING about free crawling.
And trust me, that 1% will baloon to 5% and that 5% will be all the high paying keywords.
Secondly, I'm not sure I understand where you get 'site match is all about Adsense publishers becoming second class citizens'
I think it's about commercial sites paying for traffic, and little else. The simple fact that you may have to pay for the traffic that you get and sell to someone else is a pretty standard business model.
Besides, from my understanding of it (which isn't crystal, how could it be with all of the underinformed posting going on over on that other thread?) if I rank well at yahoo now, I will continue to rank, and will not be removed from the index, nor forced to pay for referrals.
<added> but yes, let's not discuss this here, it has nothing to do with Adsense </added>
No worries over here, half of my pages are in Yahoo already.
It's not hard to optimize when you're getting crawled every day.
Any significant source of traffic that migrates to a PFI approach can severely hamper your AdSense ROI.
First, where do you get the idea that Yahoo is "migrating to a PFI approach"? See the Yahoo spokesman's statement.
Second, what do you mean by "AdSense ROI"? What are you investing in AdSense, other than a block of space on your pages?
If you want the official word, I would go where Yahoo is publically talking about SiteMatch:
[content.overture.com...]
Nowhere does it talk about free crawling. It gives every impression that it is all about PFI.
AdSense ROI? The return on the time and energy you put into creating great content. When up to half your traffic starts to cost 15 cents per click, I'd like to know what happens to your return.
Any significant source of traffic that migrates to a PFI approach...
Unless they start removing sites that are already in, I couldn't care less about the PFI. Its set too high for most of my competition to afford anyway, but in any case its a level playing field.
The only factor that matters to me is how quickly, and in what depth, will the free spidering take place.
If you are an AdSense publisher, then you are optimizing for traffic to send to adsense ads. The people who run those ads are simply going to cut you out and create web pages for those keywords themselves.
Instead of paying YOU, they will pay yahoo the 15 cents or whatever per click through.
How about you boycott Yahoo, I'll monetize the extra traffic.
Would you like me to sticky you a robots.txt?
I have adsense on a number of sites that are #1 for very competitive SERPs in Yahoo.
I think that the PFI model will work from them - because most people don't have the patience, skills or network to promote their sites in Y! properly - that is their target market.
[edited by: PatrickDeese at 4:34 pm (utc) on Mar. 2, 2004]
Yahoo! Search crawls the web every 2-4 weeks and automatically finds new content for indexing. If pages already in the Yahoo! Search index link to your site, it will be considered for inclusion in the next update of the index. Getting your site listed in major directory services such as the Yahoo! Directory and DMOZ is an excellent way to be sure that there are links to your site.
[help.yahoo.com...]
Any significant source of traffic that migrates to a PFI approach can severely hamper your AdSense ROI.
No, any significant source of traffic that migrates to a PFI approach can severely hamper your website ROI.
Subtle, imperative difference.
This is not an Adsense issue, it is a webmasters issue. If you are a webmaster who runs Adsense, then yes, it is of concern. But, it is of equal concern to commercial site webmasters who don't run adsense.
Therefor, the most appropriate place for discussion is not here. Kind of like those multiple choice questions in school, two answers are technically correct, but one is more correct than the others. I hated those questions.
We're running Adsense, and about 3/4 of our pages are in Yahoo but we never paid a single dime for PFI. We have no plans to pay to be included. Unless I start seeing Yahoo dropping my pages to show purely PFI pages, then that's the only time I will pay serious attention to conspiracy rants like the original post.
I think people are letting Tim sucker them in. He's been sent out the placate the troops, I am sorry you guys do not see that.
So you are saying that Tim has been sent to deceive all webmaster with false information about the true goals of the new Yahoo! product?
Craig
Lets see who'll have an easier time of optimizing for Yahoo.
[webmasterworld.com...]
lol, it isn't just on-page optimization that counts
I think that this will eventually push a lot of us from the first page of Yahoo SERPS. You are right, it is bad. It will also affect the quality of their SERPS whether they admit it or not.
It could be that the whole first page is full of ads :) Nice way to serve the customer a page where every link out makes you money. It is so deliciously evil. <not that this is a bad thing, it is their site after all>
On the other hand, once I have enough time I will read up more on this and if it is as I suspect, then that Overture account, which I almost opened two days ago and was going to open this week, won't happen.
If you want to know more about how search engines work you can visit the other forums on this site. That would be a good starting point.
AdSense ROI? The return on the time and energy you put into creating great content.
That isn't AdSense ROI, that's sweat equity. :-)
When up to half your traffic starts to cost 15 cents per click, I'd like to know what happens to your return.
At some point, e-commerce sites may find themselves having to pay for traffic (just as they do in the offline world). But search engines need eyeballs to generate PPC profits on their own pages, and they won't get those eyeballs if they supply readers only with paid e-commerce and affiliate listings.
To put it another way, editorial content is what attracts readers and advertising. And for search engines, "editorial content" consists of links to information.
If you are an AdSense publisher, then you are optimizing for traffic to send to adsense ads.
Speak for yourself. I'm optimizing for my readers, and AdSense is just one of multiple revenue streams.
The people who run those ads are simply going to cut you out and create web pages for those keywords themselves.
Maybe the affiliate sites and SEO-driven e-commerce entrepreneurs will. But they've been cranking out keyword-optimized pages for search engines all along. Mainstream advertisers are looking for targeted audiences that are likely prospects for their products or services. In my category, for example, I don't think you'll see many airlines, cruise lines, tour operators, etc. cranking out keyword-optimized pages for a search engine's PFI/PPC program. It's far easier, quicker, and more cost-effective for them to run ads in media (including Web sites) that can deliver qualified leads.
Ok I tell you what, MSGRAPH. You get your webpage crawled once every four weeks and I get my webpage crawled once a day. Lets see who'll have an easier time of optimizing for Yahoo.
All the more reason to think long-term and focus on "evergreen" content. (Some of my most profitable pages were created in 1997 or 1998 and need only an occasional update to bring in page views and revenues from multiple sources. It really doesn't matter to me if they're spidered once a day, once a week, or once a month.)
I think that this will eventually push a lot of us from the first page of Yahoo SERPS. You are right, it is bad. It will also affect the quality of their SERPS whether they admit it or not.
Yes, and if their SERPs become nothing more than a shopping guide, they'll lose traffic to Google and other legitimate search engines.
Yes, and if their SERPs become nothing more than a shopping guide, they'll lose traffic to Google and other legitimate search engines.
That is unlikely, most people will only switch if the results become totally useless, are filled with annoying spam and popups. It takes something pretty drastic for users to switch
I think the worst case scenario is that Yahoo moves entirely to PFI with no free listings, the usefulness of their SE to users declines, they lose lots of users and either stick with no free listings and other current and future SEs gain users or Yahoo reverts to something that includes free listings. I don't believe Yahoo is going to 100% PFI, but in the UNLIKELY EVENT that they do I'm not worried because users will go elsewhere to do their searches and my sites will still get visitors from the SERPs. Or am I giving Internet users and other SEs too much credit?
It may go to 100% PFI/PPC for purely commercial listings. And why not? Users won't mind if there were only 50 instead of 1,000 identical pages for the Hotel Caligula or the Orelick DustSucker Vacuum Cleaner in the SERPs. But Yahoo users will flee to Google if Yahoo doesn't deliver useful information searches--just as they've fled to Google from other search engines in the past.
