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July 2024 Google Search Observations

         

renatovieira

1:15 pm on Jul 1, 2024 (gmt 0)

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Search Console frozen since friday. Has anyone else noticed?




[edited by: not2easy at 1:39 pm (utc) on Jul 1, 2024]

RedBar

2:22 pm on Jul 1, 2024 (gmt 0)

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<Off Topic> Does anyone know from where DDG is scraping some of its results at the moment other than Bing?

I just did a personal search for something and the info was 20 years old! Bing has it correct.

Has DDG bought a very out-of-date something or other?
</ot>

For my global site June was -10% v May 2024 but -23.5% v June 2023!

UK hotel site +2.4% v May 2024 and +10.9% v June 2023.

ichthyous

2:22 pm on Jul 1, 2024 (gmt 0)

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I am now seeing what some of you have reported for the past couple of months. Searches now have 'People Also Ask' box at the top with no fewer than 15 questions linking out to articles! Only after that the #1 organic result. Then comes a box of five "Things to Know" which includes links to both tutorials and youtube videos. After that the #2 organic result (which is my own site).

I looked in GSC to see the difference in clicks between the past 3 months and the same period for 2023 and the clicks increased considerably (as did my ranking). It appears that I was able to overcome the decline in traffic by increasing my rank. I am also wondering if the type of site makes a difference here...people don't go to my site looking for answers to the questions in the PAA and TTK boxes, they go to see the best examples of the work. If my site only had informative articles it would be very different.

I checked my USA traffic at GSC for the last three months, compared to the same three month period in 2023. Impressions are -23.5% while clicks are +11%. The CTR is up. Anyone else seeing this same trend of much lower impressions but higher CTR?

[edited by: ichthyous at 3:25 pm (utc) on Jul 1, 2024]

Micha

3:03 pm on Jul 1, 2024 (gmt 0)

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@RedBar Bing, Yahoo, Yandex and other sources such as Wikipedia

A question for the European store owners: Have sales gone down since Saturday, despite rising rankings?

Well, my site seems to be benefiting right now. Daily visitors have been increasing since Friday. Last month was a mixed bag -25.5 percent compared to May, which really hurts to see.

ichthyous

6:13 pm on Jul 1, 2024 (gmt 0)

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One of the categories from my Pinterest profile is now ranking far above my own website for some high volume terms. If you click the link it takes you to my own Pinterest profile.

So...do I delete this high ranking Pinterest category and zap one major competitor, or do I keep it hoping that people will click the link from Pinterest to my own site? Pinterest has referred minimal traffic for years now, and I stopped adding to or updating that social media profile 5+ years ago as well.

Whitey

4:56 am on Jul 2, 2024 (gmt 0)

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Search Console frozen since friday. Has anyone else noticed?
@renatovieira frozen now for 45hrs.

I''m curious to know why GSC does this. It seems to be an irregular ongoing occurrence every few weeks or so for many years.

Conro

5:21 am on Jul 2, 2024 (gmt 0)

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It seems that everywhere in the world it is forbidden to use copyrighted content without permission for profit. ChatGPT has a paid version, Gemini has a paid version, Copilot has a paid version, Perplexity has its paid version. In addition to using content without permission for profit, Google also takes away traffic at the source by harming the copyright owner, who cannot do this even if it is not for profit. They can't even hide it because it's obvious to everyone. Maybe it's time to ask a lawyer for more information

RubicCubed

9:50 am on Jul 2, 2024 (gmt 0)

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Maybe it's time to ask a lawyer for more information

Yes, it would be interesting to see a judge determine what part of that alleged social contract they speak of they feel authorizes them to steal our content.

Whitey

12:11 pm on Jul 2, 2024 (gmt 0)

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@renatovieira
[seroundtable.com...]

ichthyous

1:43 pm on Jul 2, 2024 (gmt 0)

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Maybe it's time to ask a lawyer for more information


My lawyer and I discuss it all the time...the problem is it requires an enormous amount of resources to sue trillion dollar companies. My attorney, and most others, want to see clarity from the first rounds of lawsuits before they would ever act on it. There are already many parties suing...mostly trade associations and large corporations dealing with music or motion pictures, but also a group of individual writers has sued. Those cases will set the tone for whether a huge rush of copyright infringement cases proceed.

Do keep in mind that your work has to be registered in the copyright office to be able to claim damages. Every country's laws are different so it will ultimately depend on where you are located and whether you have taken the time to actually protect your work.

saladtosser

12:57 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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>>>Maybe it's time to ask a lawyer for more information<<<

If any said lawyers looked like they were getting anywhere I suspect they would receive a personal under the table payment from said company and the case would go nowhere...Unless the law is changed these LLM companies will take and profit off all work and not even thank us for our service!

mosxu

1:21 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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The damage is done mainly now by free shopping listings designed to confuse users not to click on organic!

But only high street stores have their products displayed free and in my industry these are not even suitable!

Mark_A

2:24 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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.. Do keep in mind that your work has to be registered in the copyright office ..

ichthyous I think that requirement is only in the USA. In Britain you have copyright protection as soon as you create something. If there is a dispute you may need to be able to evidence when you created it - but there is no requirement to register work at a copyright office.

EditorialGuy

2:40 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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Unless something has changed, you get copyright protection in the U.S. without registering your work, but--if you haven't registered it--you're entitled only to real damages as opposed to statutory damages.

saladtosser

3:02 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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According to ahrefs traffic checker (free) ***Every SINGLE site in my niche**** has all lost between 40-85% of traffic starting the decline in Feb-March, the traffic they had before isn't going to any of them, where is it going? AI overviews?! I've only lost about 15% so seem to be the winner but week on week its going down and down and down since March, not as a sudden drop but slowly. but it isn't going to any other sites in my niche and their lost traffic isn't coming to mine! Do you guys see this in your niches?

ichthyous

3:56 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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@editorialguy. Yes all works are automatically copyrighted (except for those created with AI), but if you intend to sue over an infringement the work will need to be registered. Your damages are limited to actual damages (which you would need to prove) and not statutory damages. Your legal fees cannot also be awarded as damages. So, pursuing an infringement case for unregistered works is not nearly as lucrative and many attorneys won't even handle those cases in my experience. This is from another source:

"If the work infringed upon is of U.S. origin, then you must register your copyright before filing a lawsuit. [1] If the infringement took place before you registered your copyright, then you can sue for your actual damages, but you generally will not be able to recover attorney’s fees or statutory damages."

Regarding AI created works. Copyright law covers works created by individuals or groups of people. Since AI works are created by a technology they are excluded from copyright protection

@Mark I have pursued infringements in the uk and have won. I provided proof of registration in the US as evidence and a way to make the claim stronger. Almost all infringers try to lie and say the work isn't yours, or they have a license which they purchased at some cheap stock site (they dont), etc. You are often required to prove the veracity of your ownership and the value of the image...otherwise you may get a low amount not even worth the time. UK settlements are much lower than US settlements in general, and UK legal counsel is a pain to find and want more money than in the US as it's not as lucrative for them.

Conro

6:40 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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@ichthyous In Europe, there are law firms that only deal with copyright infringements. There are photographers who, when they publish a photo, make it known to these studios that scan the web for stolen photos. Once they find the site, they start sending emails and threatening to go before a judge. Generally, everything is resolved with compensation without going to the court. However, any lawyer can do this, only the firms that specialize in copyright infringement are much better organized. As they have already said, when you publish something online it is protected by copyright, in order not to be it it must be explicit, like creative commons. Content can never be used for profit, unless under authorization. If I'm not mistaken, in the USA copyright infringement for profit You also go to prison

christianz

7:22 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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firms that only deal with copyright infringements. There are photographers who, when they publish a photo, make it known to these studios that scan the web for stolen photos.


There are a couple well known such companies that "scan for copyrighted images". I have also received such emails. The issue is that, in my opinion, there has to be demonstrable harm done to the copyright owner if he wants to receive monetary compensation. And this compensation has to be equal to the lost revenue for the copyright holder. In 99% of cases the lost revenue is equal to zero. Yet these scanning companies are asking for 200 euro (or something) per image.

What I did initially was remove these images in question immediately. But, of course, I did not give them a cent or reply to their threat emails. Eventually I started throwing their e-mails into "Spam" folder, so I really don't know anymore if they have sent me any emails recently. Too many false positives and images are uploaded by users anyway (not me).

Any photographer concerned with copyrighted image on my sites is always welcome to email me directly and I will remove it immediately. But I will never pay any back-dated image usage rights invoice for arbitrary sum. That's not how the Internet works.

Beachboy

7:24 pm on Jul 3, 2024 (gmt 0)

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Google's use of AI with its search results reminds me a bit (so far) of Coca-Cola's 1985 disaster when introducing New Coke. Don't strangle your profit source.

Conro

5:38 am on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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@christianz The same time you're posting something that's not yours you're in the wrong, it's already proven that you're guilty. Usually when things get serious you get the letter from the lawyer at home, they know how to move, it's their job.

Whitey

6:16 am on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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95hrs so far. 2-3 days to catch up. Here's the latest from Google Search Central:

[x.com...]

superclown2

8:45 am on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)



But I will never pay any back-dated image usage rights invoice for arbitrary sum. That's not how the Internet works.


Different countries, different laws.

I was pestered by 'a certain company' for a ludicrous claim over an image that was provided by a guy who set a site up for me in the early days, when even Frontpage was a mystery to me. I threatened them back with a complaint of harassment which is a criminal matter over here. I heard nothing again from them.

However:

1) Our google click numbers have nosedived (which is surprising because our position in the SERPs is far better than last month) but the response rate has soared upwards.

2) I am seeing far less Googlespam.

Could it be (1) fewer people are going to Google but those that do are ignoring the ads, and (2) this has caused them to cut back on their abuse of the SERPs (obscured by a claimed anti-spam update)? I should add that I am in the UK where our laws are entirely different to those in the USA where, seemingly, anything goes, in the face of a completely ineffective legal system, so others may be seeing something completely different.

christianz

11:18 am on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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@christianz The same time you're posting something that's not yours you're in the wrong, it's already proven that you're guilty. Usually when things get serious you get the letter from the lawyer at home, they know how to move, it's their job.


I may be in the wrong but all I owe you is apology and removal of your picture. Unless I actually caused you provable monetary harm or gained monetary reward by utilizing your copyrighted work. At least that's how I think it SHOULD be. I know there are ridiculously large statutory damages for copyright infringement without any provable material gain or harm. I don't think it's fair.

In my particular case, I am not posting anything - it's my users posting those pictures. I can not possibly pre-screen and pre-filter them prior to publishing. Technologically impossible. I know big tech have systems like that but they have the resources to afford it and even their systems are not perfect.

RedBar

1:44 pm on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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What a strange start to July. So far my first three days have seen +36% in page views and, this I have never seen before, of those three days the page views have been within 1% of each other, crazy stuff!

Micha

2:11 pm on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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A very strange start indeed, my site experienced an increase of +42 percent in the first few days, today it seems to be going down again. However, the store is as good as dead, there is a minus of about 91 percent and with a bit of luck the one or other buyer will stray there. On the other hand, the cost of Google advertising is rising. So it seems that Google has changed something again in the last few days.

Fluff_Nutz

2:51 pm on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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Traffic started really well at the kick off to July. Jumping up to +111%, taking me to a lovely 2,700 views. Huge jump... then I noticed it was mostly bot traffic. First time in realizing that bots had invaded and not sure what to make of it. So, naturally, the views dropped the next day and has been on a continual drop ever since. Slow but still dropping. I am now at 400 views per day. Despite it being mostly due to bots I do miss those 2,700 views... For reference the bot source seemed to be coming from urlumbrella, who or whatever that is. First time seeing such a source but they have, since, seemed to have disappeared. Along with the huge jump in traffic.

Another drop was May 2024 Vs June 2024, which ended up being a -12% drop. The good news though is that I have managed to kick my team into gear. So we shall see what the future brings. I'm barely clinging on to Mediavine monthly requirements, so its make or break.

Conro

3:55 pm on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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The increase in traffic could also be there because Google has eliminated continuous scrolling from desktop

ichthyous

4:13 pm on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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I may be in the wrong but all I owe you is apology and removal of your picture. Unless I actually caused you provable monetary harm or gained monetary reward by utilizing your copyrighted work. At least that's how I think it SHOULD be. I know there are ridiculously large statutory damages for copyright infringement without any provable material gain or harm. I don't think it's fair.


@ChristianZ

Please take my advice from someone on the other side of the issue who does this regularly and makes a six figure annual return from copyright recovery. I'm not saying this to show off, but just so that people are very clear on where the boundaries are.

I may be in the wrong but all I owe you is apology and removal of your picture. Unless I actually caused you provable monetary harm or gained monetary reward by utilizing your copyrighted work.

This is 100% incorrect. When you are caught having infringed on someone else's work...whether it be an image or music or whatever else, you have violated federal copyright law in the US. What you think you owe people doesn't matter in the eyes of the law, but many people think exactly like you do and get a real shock when someone aggressively pursues their claim.

The copyright holder doesn't have to prove that you harmed them in the slightest, it's not a trademark. What they will have to do is to provide some kind of proof of what the infringed work has actual monetary value. That is not required by the law, but it both shows the infringer that you aren't lying when you say "People pay me X amount for this work, and you stole it and used it for free". If you cannot reach any settlement and the case gets filed in the Federal court then that valuation info gets sent to the judge as well. If you still refuse to settle for a reasonable amount it can go to trial or more likely summary judgment...the judge decides who wins and the damages. If the work is registered the attorney can ask for statutory damages and also for legal fees to be added. That is up to $150,000 per infringement, plus the attorney's legal fees.

You can of course still refuse to pay, thinking that you don't owe these people a thing. I have had plenty of those, who violate the court order. What happens then is that my attorney can search for your accounts, sent the court order to the bank and the bank will take the money out in full. I just got handed $72,000 from an infringer who thought like you. It took a couple of years to track down their account. When my attorney did, the bank sent all the money within 48 hours. That same infringer ended up paying out 3.5X what the original demand was from my attorney. If they had negotiated it would have been even less. They didn't, they fought every step of the way so the judge hammered them.

I know there are ridiculously large statutory damages for copyright infringement without any provable material gain or harm. I don't think it's fair

No there aren't. The damages have a set upper limit ($150k per infringement). It's pretty rare to get anywhere close to that upper limit unless the behavior of the infringer was willful and egregious AND the copyright holder can prove that the work would fetch that amount if it were sold (and not stolen). The person holding the copyright will have to show convincing proof that their work has worth and merit in order to win large sums. No court will hand over larger sums to someone who isn't already making money from their work.

If you have ignored the notices you get and they haven't escalated it, that is because they are not perceiving your business as being viable enough to pursue. Many of these automated services are useless, they won't go the distance and that's why I use them to find infringements and then use my own attorneys that I personally hired and control. The first thing we do is assess whether it looks like the infringement is worth pursuing. Things like simple social media uses (not commercial), educational uses, small time business that look like mom and pop shops, etc. we generally will not pursue as there is no return. Most of the time it is businesses that get sued, and I personally am much more willing to accept a lower settlement from small businesses and mom and pop type businesses that show a willingness to settle.

One important point. Nobody can sue you for copyright infringement for work they don't actually have the rights to, or they didn't create themselves, or which they didn't register. If a person is making it up and is falsely pursing a claim that they don't even have the right to pursue then you can turn around and sue them right back for wasting your time and also include your legal fees. It cuts both ways. The courts have gotten sick of so many copyright suits that they have punished the attorneys and the plaintiffs quite heavily if they lie or misstate that the work is registered when it wasn't. In fact the most active copyright attorney in the country was disbarred completely and his client was hammered with huge damages for lying about their claims. You cannot simply get greedy and make sh!t up because these companies will come right back and hammer you back.

To correct a previous misstatement in another post...
With copyright law you cannot imprison someone, it's civil law not criminal. If the infringer is destitute you cannot get blood from a stone...it's the end of the line for the case and it just gets dropped. In other countries...the UAE for one, it is a criminal matter and the court can have the infringer arrested...a scary prospect indeed.

Most countries do not have statutory damages as high as the USA. But many countries are still fairly high...I have done well with cases in Canada, Australia, Germany and the UK. Do I care if they don't pay as much as the USA? It's all revenue in the end.

christianz

5:07 pm on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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ichthyous, you wouldn't get half a cent from me no matter hard you tried. As a platform I am not liable for user generated content. Otherwise social media wouldn't exist. You could upload your work and turn around and sue me for publishing it.

Do I care if they don't pay as much as the USA? It's all revenue in the end.


That's exactly the problem with professional copyright victims. They are not victims, they are vultures, racketeers and enemies of the free Web.

There are actually fake stock photography sites that upload "trap images" which falsely claim to be free to use, and then go after everyone who used them with copyright claims. A cottage industry of copyright extortion.

I know USA is famous for laughable court cases where people are awarded damages in billions for nonexistent harms (Bayer weedkiller and fluorescent lamp cases, for example), but in Germany I am sure you didn't get much because you actually had to prove some real quantifiable monetary harm.

ichthyous

7:13 pm on Jul 4, 2024 (gmt 0)

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@Christian You didn't mention UGC...you are not liable for UGC if you have a mechanism on your site for taking down infringements. If you do not, or do not act on it then you are liable. The law currently protects platforms from UGC under section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, but that may change as it is the subject of current legal disputes.

There are actually fake stock photography sites that upload "trap images" which falsely claim to be free to use, and then go after everyone who used them with copyright claims. A cottage industry of copyright extortion.


Copyright law was intended to protect creative works from being stolen and abused by third parties. Without this protection the entire economy would grind to a halt. Nobody would create anything if anyone else could just steal it and use it however they wanted. I'm sure there are a few examples of abuse out there sure, just like in every profession. But keep in mind that if you can prove that someone in falsely pursing claims of infringement against you and 1) you didn't infringe on it or 2) they are falsely making assertions of ownership or inducing people to use it just to trap them as you say...that is all easily verifiable by the person being accused of the theft. In those cases the court would strip the plaintiff bare for lying and wasting both the court's time and the defendant's time. I have seen it happen...attorneys who aren't doing due diligence and their client doesn't really have the rights...they get hammered. The worst offender was disbarred completely. So it works both ways, and I can assure you that the number of people stealing images and using them for their own commercial ends is far, far greater in number than the copyright trolls.

And keep in mind, everything I copyrighted I created from scratch at considerable expense...it's not free to you or anyone else in the world. If people want it, pay for it.
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