Google Updates and SERP Changes - July 2016

[aristotle]

If you see a big upheaval taking place, especially on multiple sites, then you should report it. Also anything unusual. But minor hourly fluctuations don't have much significance.

[edited by: bakedjake at 2:39 am (utc) on Jul 3, 2016]
[edit reason] Create new July update thread [/edit]

[masterjoe]

Had zero conversions the entire day. This has happened for the 3rd week in a row. Will post back when traffic returns to normal, likely in the next day or so.

[mosxu]

samwest sorry to hear that your website has lost all traffic, you mentioned that you are using an email list builder but no one is subscribing which is strange cause conversions are around 10% when an offer in place, then I think it cannot be that the traffic is from real people after all

wonder if more of us are using an email list builder and also if ever tried to use clicktale to play back these zombies? (do not use hotjar cause it is sampling the data)

[samwest]

you mentioned that you are using an email list builder

I did? I'm not using a list builder.

The site was a niche paid content site. Email is collected only after a purchase is made. The free trial account offer I did mention is not getting any traction. Regular sales continue, but one or two a day at most, if lucky. A normal day used to be 10+.
Traffic popped back to around 200-500/day, At 2% that should be about 10/day. Conversion rates dropped from the old actual 1.8% to more like .18% today.

[mosxu]

samwest ok but the free account is it like a pop up where people put their email on? That works like a list builder and should be getting most of the leads. Watching videos with clicktale should reveal at least if the visitors are real, generally they are not

[masterjoe]

Seeing ridiculous conversions for the last 2 days as well samwest. Conversion on average are 3% on non-zombie days, zombie days drops to .5 or less. Adwords is off unless I see that conversions are happening in organics again, which is what I suggest people do if you rely on sales from the platform. Unless of course you can move to Amazon or another marketplace where you don't see such awful ROI.

[Jez123]

It's been all week for me - since last Friday in fact. I have had the worst weeks revenue since I got hit with Penguin in April 2012. I don't know if it's zombies or what it is but whatever they may be, they ain't buying!

[glakes]

I think I have you all beat in crap conversions from Google. Yesterday was a whopping .014%. On a good day, which happens once or twice a week, I'm above 3% with Google. I'm steady in the 3%+ range with Bing, Yahoo and higher with Amazon on a daily basis. Just wanted to point that out to the morons who always want to lay blame for poor conversions with the site, because if it were the site then traffic from Bing and Yahoo would not convert as steady as they do. It all boils down to Bing and Yahoo sending much higher quality traffic then Google.

[NickMNS]

@Glakes
The way I see it is, Google send you the traffic that it sends you. You are not going to change that. Complaining about it here may make you feel a little better but it wont change anything.

There is not much that you can do to influence this situation. You can't make changes to Google's algos that for sure, the only changes you can make are to your own site. So you can choose to change nothing and accept the situation for what it is, or you can try to optimize your site to improve conversions coming from Google. The choice is yours.

I would be careful though calling people morons for suggesting that you should consider optimizing you site.

[samwest]

At the moment it's once again back to zero traffic, so conversions don't even come into play yet. You have to have traffic for that. Just like conversions used to shut off, now ALL traffic is shutting off. The site must really be out in obscurity land. 30 minute zero runs are becoming the norm.

[glakes]

The way I see it is, Google send you the traffic that it sends you. You are not going to change that. Complaining about it here may make you feel a little better but it wont change anything.

Nick, you must be really confused. I was not complaining - just posting an observation with hard cold abysmal conversion numbers from Google.

You can't make changes to Google's algos that for sure, the only changes you can make are to your own site. So you can choose to change nothing and accept the situation for what it is, or you can try to optimize your site to improve conversions coming from Google. The choice is yours.

There's always one in the bunch, so let me be clear on conversions. Bing, Yahoo, Facebook all convert just fine. On average referral traffic from links converts at 2%, which greatly exceeds Google's abysmal weekly conversion rate. Multiple sources of traffic converting just fine except for Google. So to address your statement about optimizing my site for Google, I will do absolutely nothing to my site to appease just Google. Why? Multiple sources of traffic are converting just fine and it's not my site's fault that Google is the only source of traffic that can't seem to get its act together - free or paid. And to address your other point about choice, I already made my choice a while ago to ditch Google. Read page 2 of this thread and you will see I stated yesterday:

Thankfully this garbage traffic Google has been sending since last year has been replaced by Amazon sales. I'd highly recommend other ecommerce operators who are losing Google's war on small retailers to check out Amazon.

There ya have it - I made my choice to ditch Google and sell on Amazon. It was a great business move. I'm on target to have my best year ever, almost entirely without Google (except for the rare buyers Google sends one or two days a week). Just because I no longer fork over money to Google for Adwords crap traffic (yes, I sent the paid zombies back to their graves), does not mean I will not comment on my observations. So please don't confuse my observations as complaints. Trust me, I'm actually very happy WITHOUT Google! And while typing this, I received another Amazon order. :)

[ecommerceprofit]

Nickmns. Bing, yahoo, facebook convert just fine for glakes...why would he change anything for google? The problem is not his site.

Glakes is right...amazon orders come in super strong...they never end. Tons of money being made on Amazon...Google reminds me of Yahoo in late 90s...Yahoo served results from Google and actually paid them! Dumb of Yahoo...let Google in the door. Amazon is now the old Google...

[NickMNS]

I think I have you all beat in crap conversions from Google.

Is that not complaining? It sure sounds like it to me. Why exactly are you posting in the Google Serps Forum if you don't care about Google?

There's always one in the bunch, so let me be clear on conversions. Bing, Yahoo, Facebook all convert just fine.

Let me be clear, your posting in a forum about Google Serps stating "Google's abysmal weekly conversion rate" this suggests to me that you have an interest in improving this abysmal conversion rate. Maybe I am a moron and I am totally misunderstanding you, maybe I am in the wrong forum.

Bottom line is if you want to change something you only have these options:
1- Do nothing - the default option chosen
2- Wait - it has been almost a year by some accounts, and 5 or 6 by others. If you are still waiting you are essentially doing nothing.
3- Tweak some aspect of your website - "Oh no how dare you suggest that!"
4- Give up and try something else.

So great Glakes you chose option 4, You are going with Amazon. By all accounts this seems like the right decision, sincerely. So move on, start an Amazon thread and discuss ways of improving on what you have.

But don't come here and complain about Google, offer no suggestions or solutions and then call those that are trying to help morons. How is this helping you or anybody else?

This post is not just targeted at Glakes, I felt his moron comment was off base so I replied to him, but others here have the same general attitude.

[ecommerceprofit]

5 - share information with other victims or future possible victims. If a solution is found share this information with Google if it seems like they did not mean to cause this. Lets move this discussion to zombie thread

[glakes]

Is that not complaining? It sure sounds like it to me. Why exactly are you posting in the Google Serps Forum if you don't care about Google?

If you are going to quote me, don't leave the most important part out. I'll do it for ya since you want to cherry pick my comments:

I think I have you all beat in crap conversions from Google. Yesterday was a whopping .014%.

I don't know what industry you operate in, but a .014% conversion rate from Google traffic is crap.

Let me be clear, your posting in a forum about Google Serps stating "Google's abysmal weekly conversion rate" this suggests to me that you have an interest in improving this abysmal conversion rate. Maybe I am a moron and I am totally misunderstanding you, maybe I am in the wrong forum.

Of course I would like to see my conversion rate from Google improve. Who would not want more sales? But you whining about the alleged whiner does not change anything. I shared my abysmal conversion rate with others. What have you shared? That you don't like how I described a conversion rate that anyone in their right mind would also define as crap? Grow up.

But don't come here and complain about Google, offer no suggestions or solutions and then call those that are trying to help morons.

I will call Google's traffic as I see it, and a .014% conversion rate is crap. And did I call you a moron? No, but you immediately jumped on it like if it was aimed at you. And I don't recall where you tried to help. All I recall are your rants...

[masterjoe]

Conversions seem to have returned... just like clockwork.

[NickMNS]

I do not share my conversion rate because I do not track my conversion rate as I do not run an ecommerce site. I do not feel that for my purpose it is a meaningful metric. I do however, share my Adsense metrics on a monthly basis over in the Adsense forum. CTR can viewed as a proxy to conversion rate. Also, I do not see the value of sharing daily changes as these are mostly irrelevant, as they are subject to noise and randomness.

As for suggestions, I have made many suggestions but I assume that they are ignored by most, especially since they involve making changes to your site. I will concede that the suggestions made are high-level, vague and subject to varying interpretations, but it is impossible to make specific suggestions here as site specific details are not allowed.

I will make suggestions now, instead of (or in addition to) posting into the forum whenever you have bad day or great day why don't you post your monthly average, in fact you need only post the change from the previous month. E.g: conversions in July rose 10% from June. As such you do not need to disclose any information you may want to keep private. And add in the change for the min and max, so that we can get an idea of range. Then if everyone share this information we can get a more meaningful baseline of what is happening.

I did not say that you specifically called me a moron, but I do consider myself one of those that "lays blame for poor conversions with the site" (paraphrasing you). So yes I took offense.

My position is clear, the initial cause or trigger is now irrelevant, Zombie traffic is here to stay, the only choice you have is to try an adapt or give up.

[glakes]

I do not share my conversion rate because I do not track my conversion rate as I do not run an ecommerce site. I do not feel that for my purpose it is a meaningful metric. I do however, share my Adsense metrics on a monthly basis over in the Adsense forum. CTR can viewed as a proxy to conversion rate. Also, I do not see the value of sharing daily changes as these are mostly irrelevant, as they are subject to noise and randomness.

Adsense and ecommerce are on entirely different ends of the spectrum, with one commonality of competing for an audience. For example, in the last couple of days I ordered about $3K in materials to replenish some of the inventory we need on hand to manufacture product. I have to pay for those materials, wages for staff to produce the product, pay for our building, etc. Many with Adsense websites enjoy earning a little spare change from maintaining sites on topics they love and enjoy. I have no problem with that. But dealing with daily fluctuations for those in Adsense is much different than those of us with a lot more skin (overhead) in the game.

As for suggestions, I have made many suggestions but I assume that they are ignored by most, especially since they involve making changes to your site.

Your suggestions are ignored not because they involve changes to sites, but because they throw the baby out with the bath water. If I'm a public speaker speaking to an audience of ten, why would I turn my back on nine of them to speak directly to the one that is not listening? Google is the one sole party in the crowd that fails to listen (send converting traffic) 80% of the time. This goes back to the whole zombie thing. One or two days a week Google traffic produces good results while all the other traffic sources produce good results consistently nearly every day of the week (except for weekends). If there is a structural problem with a website, Google would not send it traffic at all. Anyway, your suggestions ignore the fact that this website has years of good converting Google traffic history with a timeline that coincides with other ecommerce websites that attracted zombies around the same time. This provides a very strong indication that zombies are not site specific but instead a change Google made in how they deal with ecommerce queries.

I did not say that you specifically called me a moron, but I do consider myself one of those that "lays blame for poor conversions with the site" (paraphrasing you). So yes I took offense.

I did not mean to offend you, but in my statement I wanted to get ahead of the curve for precisely what you brought up because it makes absolutely no sense. Why would anyone expect any net positive effect from Google after making changes to a website when it already ranks on the first page for many keywords? Google can send our site good traffic one or two days a week, so would any on-site changes maybe move Google to send it good traffic three days a week? Or would those high ranking keywords in Google be lost? This reminds me of a post I made recently about chasing Google's carrot on a stick. I'm not willing, nor would it be an intelligent business decision, to modify a site just to please Google when many alternative traffic sources are sending productive (converting) traffic. The site in question is structurally sound - loads fast, is mobile ready, full SSL, all 100% unique content, unique images, unique products with structured data, etc. Our customers find it easy to shop for what they are looking for, purchase and track their shipments. And to the best of my knowledge, nobody has pinned down the zombie problem with any degree of accuracy. For all we know some of the zombies may be from Google throwing in a Knowledge Graph and image box that is siphoning off buyer traffic and driving our high ranking keywords out of view of the searcher. If this is the case, no on-site changes are going to fix that.

My position is clear, the initial cause or trigger is now irrelevant, Zombie traffic is here to stay, the only choice you have is to try an adapt or give up.

Your position is coming from a very narrow Adsense point of view. For most in Adsense no clicks a few days a week is less beer money. For those of us in manufacturer to consumer ecommerce it means calling people into the office and telling them they are being let go, their health insurance is being cancelled, etc. It's my opinion that your advice is based on what you may have gathered from piecemeal posts and not that of first hand experience. Most of the people here with zombie problems run ecommerce websites, which you do not. Therefore you don't have access to the type of data we analyze nor do you see the strange sales patterns we see from Google when they occur. Just as I can't give you suggestions on how to improve Adsense revenue, I don't see you as qualified to render an opinion on how to fix an ecommerce website that has a five or six day a week problem with Google. Suggesting that on-site changes are the fix to what is clearly Google heavily manipulating their search results won't be well received by those experiencing the problem. As far as adapting goes, I did take my product and advertising budget to Amazon a while ago and am very happy I did. Though I adapted, it does not mean I would not like to find out the reasons why Google is sending mostly garbage traffic 80% of the time and possibly re-enter Adwords if/when the issue ever gets resolved. Until that happens, I will continue to share my observations with the others on this forum that are experiencing the same problems as I.

[Jez123]

Conversions seem to have returned... just like clockwork.

Same here. At about 7pm last night.

[toidi]

Is it possoble that the ecom sites are suffering from an adsense situation? Could the zombie traffic just be a way to inflate adsense impressions which in turn inflates g's bottom line? And the on off days is g's attempt to keep as many ecom sites alive as possible to obfuscate?

[mosxu]

Question is if the zombie traffic is a general phenomenon it happens to all the websites more or less without getting noticed and in our situation is going to extremes? Surely other websites owners will notice that no conversion today and 100 conversion tomorrow makes no sense and will complain.

[samwest]

Conversions seem to have returned... just like clockwork.

I wish I could concur. My problem is not poor conversions, it's now non existent traffic.
Listed, but no traffic. Go figure.

Maybe NickMNS should go start an MFA site topic.

[seohhh]

@glakes I actually really appreciate the specific details you provide. It helps me better gauge what's going on with Google. Contrary to what he may think, NickMNS is only derailing the discussion here.

[samwest]

Question: Is anyone seeing extremely low (or zero) traffic levels in GART? I'm watching Wordfence live traffic human visits and GART side by side, and traffic is not showing up in GART. As I was watching GART live, it was sitting at zero active users but suddenly bang, a sale came in and GART still showed zero. Looks like it's time to go back to PIWIK exclusively.

[frankleeceo]

GART looks fine for me across all domains. Maybe the converting user to your site specifically blocked script?

Anyone notices the design changes for GA? I do not like the new analytics design. I like being able to select properties at the upper right corner.

[glakes]

Is it possoble that the ecom sites are suffering from an adsense situation? Could the zombie traffic just be a way to inflate adsense impressions which in turn inflates g's bottom line? And the on off days is g's attempt to keep as many ecom sites alive as possible to obfuscate?

Anything is possible, though I don't see significant rank changes when checking my keywords from multiple IP addresses. When I do get bumped down the results one or two positions, it's other non-adsense websites that replace mine. The unique aspect of this problem is that it impacts both paid and free search results. On good days traffic from Google will convert just fine in both free and paid. On the zombie days the same poor conversion rate exists in both free and paid (I tested recently and saw the same results as I have been seeing since September of 2015). Therefore I can't lay the zombie problem blame on minor fluctuations in organic results or how badly Google mangles meta description re-writes. Something else or a combination of other factors is causing this.

@seohhh

Thanks for the response. Since there are many of us on this forum, we all have unique challenges that we face. SEO for me is to gain visibility so that I can sell product. Others may want to rank high to get more clicks on ads or affiliate links. At least from my perspective, SEO is more than just traffic and even more so these days when the relationship between Google traffic and conversions has been shattered. Anymore I don't care how much traffic Google sends, but rather the quality of the traffic.

[samwest]

@masterjoe & jez - funny, conversions turned on here too a short time later. 11 min apart in one case. Amazingly how it's now converting on a trickle of traffic. It's just like fishin'

[NickMNS]

Wow! Glakes where do I start? Actually I am not going to waste my time.

I will just bring to light one comment you made that I think sums things up.

Anyway, your suggestions ignore the fact that this website has years of good converting Google traffic history with a timeline that coincides with other ecommerce websites that attracted zombies around the same time. This provides a very strong indication that zombies are not site specific but instead a change Google made in how they deal with ecommerce queries.

Yes, there has been a Google change. But you haven't.

[glakes]

Wow! Glakes where do I start? Actually I am not going to waste my time.

You should stick to Adsense because your knowledge of ecommerce and zombies, in particular, are rather limited. Giving advice to make changes on-site will undoubtedly cost me or anyone facing a similar problem good converting traffic from other search engines. In other words, taking your advice would be a very costly mistake for me and therefore your advice is what I would deem to be reckless. I'll take my six or seven days a week of solid conversions from Bing, Yahoo and two days a week of converting traffic from Google before I gut my user focused website to chase Google's carrot on a stick.

Like I said countless times before, I rank on the first page for many keywords in Google. Ranking is not the problem and is therefore not an on-site issue. Traffic quality (buyer traffic) is a problem and the quality of traffic is something that Google controls. Even the thickest headed ones around here should be able to comprehend that.

Yes, there has been a Google change. But you haven't.

I most certainly did change. I took my Adwords budget and products to Amazon. And it was an excellent switch by all accounts.

[aristotle]

NickMNS -- you should design your sites to best meet the needs of your visitors, not to meet google's needs.

[Some_Bloke]

As Aristotle said:

Googles own words [support.google.com...]

Basic principles
Make pages primarily for users, not for search engines.