Google Updates and SERP Changes - November 2014

[Anon]

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System: The following 8 messages were cut out of thread at: http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4706161.htm [webmasterworld.com] by robert_charlton - 9:17 am on Nov 1, 2014 (PST -8)

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"Anyway, something happened in the past 24 hours and things have gotten MUCH worse. Spotty traffic, long zero runs, non converting, page sitters...GA seems to freeze too, anyone else noticing that? "

I have noticed further drops the past 24 hours also. Really hope these new changed are only temp.

[Sand]

Thanks guys, that makes me feel better.

This site is only 4 years old, and I have horrible holiday data to look at -- every year, it's aligned with an update that either helped me or hurt me. So hopefully this will be my first 'normal' holiday season.

[Wilburforce]

On scanning referral data in WMT I noticed that CTR for my (relatively unique, trademarked) business name - not a term I usually bother to check - had fallen to 62%.

Looking at the results, there is now a big block to the right (with map, opening times, phone number), at the bottom of which is:

People also search for

and prominent (70 x 70px) links to four of my local competitors.

How these are relevant for an exact match for my business name isn't clear, but its effect on CTR is.

This probably constitutes trade mark infringement - probably under s10 (5) - of the UK Trade Marks Act 1994, but I imagine the first thing Google would do if challenged would be to remove all listings that contain my trade mark.

However, if anyone else is similarly affected it might be worth looking at a class action.

"Do No Evil". Yeah, right.

[Martin Ice Web]

Wilburforce, didnīt you get a letter from Google where they suggest yopu to pay for this keyword?

We did get a letter last week, telling us, that we canīt be found in Google for
keyword and that we could pay for it to get some users. If we spend 50 bucks we would get 80 bucks for adds for free!

The best is:
Google tells us we canīt be found under
-example: gardener but we are example: Dentist !

Okay Google: why do you think i should pay for "gardener" when i am a "Dentist"? Why should poeple search for me when the want to plant a tree?

[EditorialGuy]

Okay Google: why do you think i should pay for "gardener" when i am a "Dentist"?

Sounds like a reasonable question for the AdWords Forum, since the pitch was from AdWords, not Google Search.

[Wilburforce]

@MIW

This isn't the same thing. My business name in a registered trade mark, which means it has the following charactersitcs:

1. It is not descriptive (it isn't immediately obvious from the name what type of business it is).

2. The right to use it advertising any business that is similar in type belongs exclusively to me.

It isn't - and doesn't contain - a "keyword" like Gardener or Dentist.

My site is - and always has been - #1 on all search engines for mybusinessname. Offering to promote searches for that exact term in exchange for payment would, in effect, be threatening not to display it otherwise (which, in most people's eyes, would be a protection racket).

Google are now using searches for my unique business name to advertise businesses that are similar in type and location.

I have tried several similar searches for other brand names/business types, and the effect is patchy. Generally, smaller businesses seem more prone to it than larger, and all examples I have seen so far are on Google Places(!).

[mrengine]

Google are now using searches for my unique business name to advertise businesses that are similar in type and location.

I can understand your frustration. I see it too when Google is displaying competitors for my business. As much as we may not like it, for users it is relevant. Now if Google buries us under our competitors for our business names, then I would have a bigger problem with it.

[totalodds]

Has anyone noticed Google is still showing a cache from between October 20-24th?

I've noticed many websites in several niches are showing old cache data (October). It's almost December, what going on?

[aakk9999]

@totalodds
Now that you say it, yes, I just went to check a few websites and most of the cache dates are in the range of 20-24th October although I saw few sites with a cache date being very early November. But I could not see anything that has cache date less than 15 days ago.

[Itanium]

Yes, some sites still show October dates. It goes back and forth - sometimes it shows the current date, sometimes it reverts back to October.

The last couple of days I had a big crawling spike for several days.

[Kelowna]

I agree 100% that bad links can kill a site, I actually do that quite often in my testing... but that has nothing to do with penguin was my point.

My problem is when people call their problem penguin related when it is not.

There are 2 kinds of experts (seo's) -- those that share theories on discussion boards -- and those that sit quietly in the background making serious money no matter what google throws at them. Remember that when getting advice, even paid advice.

[Kelowna]

my message looks a little out of place. was replying to xelaetaks on the previous page.

[bkataria]

Only high traffic website's cache updating by google, may be alarm for next penguin update.

[xelaetaks]

@Kelowna - the Penguin alogrithm is all about links, that's the whole point. So the two are related. It isn't a theory. Penguin algorithm is about links pointing to your website.

[Martin Ice Web]

@Wilbur, that sounds like Google is looking for new moneykeys that they do not have on radar yet. So when i understand you Google Shows similar Business related to your sites content?
Are the competitors match your content or are they only scratch the edge?
This may be the start of moneytization of current serps with no ads on it.

[Wilburforce]

Are the competitors match your content or are they only scratch the edge?

They provide identical commercial services in the same broad location (in my case, all four are within 50 miles of my business).

I'm still looking into it, but looking at highly recognisable brand names (try e.g. Ferrari) you can see the right-hand box I am talking about. I'm not sure whether this is global, google.co.uk only, or somewhere in between, so if anyone else does/doesn't see it please advise.

For a few much less well-known trade marks - (like mine) - there is the People also searched for... section appended underneath it.

As far as I can see, recipients of this treatment have four main components:

1. The trade mark is not well-known;
2. The business is small;
3. The business has a localised component;
4. The site has a Google Places listing.

I'm not sure where they are going with this (is it being tested, or is this the new look?), but no doubt they have some doublethink argument that puts this ethical vipers nest on the moral high-ground.

[edited by: Wilburforce at 9:01 am (utc) on Nov 26, 2014]

[mimo]

Managed high traffic website... Yes I've notice change on algo..Think google move some filter up about trust rank score (social or reviews snippet...).

[jrs79]

@totalodds
Now that you say it, yes, I just went to check a few websites and most of the cache dates are in the range of 20-24th October although I saw few sites with a cache date being very early November. But I could not see anything that has cache date less than 15 days ago.

I have hobby site with low traffic (15k per month) that shows a cache of Nov 23rd.

[Kelowna]

ha ha ha... dead wrong but you keep thinking that and stay in the dark.

[xelaetaks]

Why don't you enlighten us then since the point of Penguin is to asses links? lol!

[searchengineland.com...]

[Kelowna]

you quote what others say on their blog instead of researching for yourself so you know facts. just because you read it on a blog does not make it fact.

[xelaetaks]

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. Read any authority site it all talks about similar same stuff about Penguin - [inc.com...]

How about from Google themselves talking about bad linking patterns - [googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com...]

[JD_Toims]

Kelowna's not trolling, simply saying to test rather than believing what the "authorities" say -- A great case-in-point example is KWD [Keyword Density]. Relative level of co-occurring phrases is the new metric -- KWD hasn't been a factor in over half a decade, but I bet you'll still find analyzers and references to it either saying or implying it's importance on many "authority" sites.

There's a thread here somewhere from a few years ago when co-occurring phrases were first talked about where Tedster [RIP] suggested the addition of a single co-occurring phrase to the last paragraph on a page and the page went from somewhere on page three [IIRC] to top 5 on page one -- Yeah, KWD is where it's at, er, uh, not.

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As far as what info Google provides [and what it "penalizes" for] goes, it's just plain self-serving if you really look into it -- A couple great examples are:

Guidelines: Build your website for visitors.
WebmasterCentral, Faceted Navigation: Best URL for SEs indicate using a query_string is better.

Which would a visitor rather type in or see in the results?
toothpaste.com/whitening
toothpaste.com/products?type=whitening

I can't think of any case where a query_string is better for a visitor, but Webmaster Central says it's better for search engines. Google also recommends hyphenation of URLs so search engines can identify the words better, because even though a person can "get it" a bot sometimes can't -- So who should we structure our URLs for, the People [visitors] or the search bots? There's no telling what the answer is if you really read the guidelines and advice provided, because it's contradictory.

Google Penalty: Too many inbound links with the same anchor text.

Visitor Reality: Visitors don't give a flying *bleep* what site(s) link to the site/page they're visiting and/or what text is used. The visitor wants to find the answer they were looking for -- It doesn't matter to a visitor if a site/page has 1 or 10 or 1000 or 1,000,000 links with the same text from on-topic or off-topic sites pointing to the a site/page they found in the results. They just want to find what they're looking for -- Only Google cares about inbound links or link text.

Seriously, when was the last time anyone heard: "Wow, that page/site sucked and was complete spam, because it had too many inbound links and they all had the same text pointing to it...", other than from a search engine? No searcher I know has ever said that, and even though I work in SEO I can't remember *ever* checking backlinks and/or inbound link text to decide if a result provided the answer I was searching for, because I really couldn't care less when I search.

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Bottom Line: The "SEO Authorities" have to "say all the right things" to people to stay in business, whether what they say is "the real thing" or not, because "saying the right thing" makes more than "saying the real thing" everyday of the week. And, Google's advice, penalties, etc. are contradictory, Google-centric and serve Google's purposes, not anyone else's -- Taking everything said by anyone with a grain-of-salt and putting the info provided, to the test and seeing what's fact or fiction for one's self is very good advice, IMO.

[xelaetaks]

I hear and agree about taking what anyone says in the field with a grain if salt. I guess my main point originally was that it is not a coincidence that I got a fat penalty that killed my rankings for a over a year since about two Penguin updates ag - literally the day Penguin rolled out you see my Google traffic drop big.

Also yes we have too many links pointed at us with anchor text but I think that is clearly connected - links from directories with over optimized anchors. Now I have gotten rid of tons of bad ones and my anchor text ratio should be much better I think. When I look on hrefs a lot of the offending links are now deleted and I have a feeling it will take another Penguin update to see my site bounce back.

During the current Penguin update I was monitering my website constantly and noticed a few times were the traffic spiked up as if it were normal and Google was clearly testing things. I think it is possible that A) they were testing some configurations with Penguin that they didn't let through this time or B) maybe even analyzing data for Penguin down the line. Time will tell but I think when Penguin updates again assuming it will sometime in the near future I expect a big traffic bump like I saw when Google was testing - also I said before my site's been looked over by multiple people including people not associated with my site and all agree it is a link and penguin related issue.

[JD_Toims]

I hear and agree about taking what anyone says in the field with a grain if salt.

Cool

I guess my main point originally was that it is not a coincidence that I got a fat penalty that killed my rankings for a over a year since about two Penguin updates ag - literally the day Penguin rolled out you see my Google traffic drop big.

Also yes we have too many links pointed at us with anchor text but I think that is clearly connected - links from directories with over optimized anchors.

So many things I'd like to say, but I'll leave it at: "What visitor to a directory, your page, your site cares what the link text used is and/or if it's used on another 2, 100, 1,000,000 directories or not, as long as they find the answer they are looking for if they visit your site?" No one, except a SE -- I hope you recover, because being "a great resource which provides the right answer" and "ranking in Google" have become two different things, and things aren't likely to change, since Google has become totally self-serving and controlling links puts it in control of the Internet.

-- Also, not arguing about Penguin being "about links", but is that all it's about? I know what "everyone says", but I think it's better to test and know personally, like Kelowna says, rather than listening to or believing what anyone/everyone says, because Penguin might not "end there", but only testing will find the answer.

[JD_Toims]

I have seriously, honestly, no joke had someone who is from the "Internet Generation" tell me if a site *does not* have a favicon they know it's spam and click back right away -- I have not had a single person [I've asked a bunch] tell me a site has too many links with the same anchor text or too many comments on other sites, so it must be spam and should show lower in the results.

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There's a *huge* disconnect between Google's algo and the reality of how real people view the Internet, the site(s) they visit and what they consider spam and what they don't -- Google's algo isn't about "people" and how they view things. Google's algo is about what/how Google wants the Internet to be, which is in it's favor. Nothing else.

Pop-up windows, ad overlays trying to force people to view something other than what they were looking for, trying to force someone to join a site, little thing like a favicon, etc. say "spam" to real people -- Not how many links a site has from what source or with what anchor text. If you anyone doesn't believe me, ask around -- Google's algo isn't about "the people" or "the visitor", it's about Google controlling the Internet, because *no one* except a search engine gives a flying *bleep* about inbound links or any of the other things sites get "penalized" for.

Sorry if that's a cold, hard, dose of reality to anyone, but those who really think it through will realize what I'm saying is not refutable.

[edited by: JD_Toims at 4:29 am (utc) on Nov 27, 2014]

[xelaetaks]

I think Penguin is mostly about links. From my own and many others experiences people have seen correlations between effects on from links and Penguin updates. I'm sure how it evaluates links could be complex but I think that may be the main idea behind it and also stuff like private blog networks but that also can arguably be related to links as well.

I'm curious JD_Toims if you think having a thriving small niche online business is still possible with the help of Google rankings - in other words having potential to rank well on Google for smaller businesses?

Cheers

[JD_Toims]

I'm curious JD_Toims if you think having a thriving small niche online business is still possible with the help of Google rankings - in other words having potential to rank well on Google for smaller businesses?

Yes, absolutely, in fact, I do run the site for one *but* to do it there has to be a balance between "What Google says to do [AKA Pleasing Google].", and, "What real people want." because there's a definite disconnect between the two IMO, and it's only going to get farther apart, again, IMO

The best formula I've come up with is: if you want to grow do it on your own and make it so Google looks stupid if it doesn't rank you close to the top, because from what I've seen if you "generate a need" for a site/product and people want to find it from you Google has to "ignore" everything else [too much anchor text, too many links, comment spam, lack of links, lack of PageRank, etc.] and put you near the top of the results to not look stupid to searchers.

-- Basically, based on what I've seen and done == Create a need, fulfill the need, do it without Google and Google will have two choices: rank your site or look stupid.

[xelaetaks]

Thanks I hear that. That's kind of how I am trying to apporach it too. Gotta be the best in the industry and I imagine Google at some point might look at a site excelerating and thinking maybe that site should be ranking better - with whatever ways Google's programming can pick up this stuff up.

[JD_Toims]

Cool -- It can be done, and I hope you do -- Keep in mind one of the best ways to make Google look stupid is to have people search for you and have to go to Bing to find you, but that requires off-line marketing, word-of-mouth, social, etc. where they search for a site by name -- Hint ;)

[xelaetaks]

Thanks. I've boosted my social strategy the past year. I've looked at some competitors and it seems their social sharing is minimal at best - I don't think this has a big effect on Google but I imagine they 'might' take it into account as part of the equation. Also what I've been looking into is trying to get on some sites where people ask industry related questions to try bring up some authority in the niche with the company. Anyway, there is stuff to try out for sure. Cheers