Exact Match Domains Update 9-28-2012 - Part 2

[themistral]

< continnued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

So guys, has anyone with an EMD who was hit, recovered at all?
If so what has worked for you?

[edited by: tedster at 2:51 pm (utc) on Oct 19, 2012]

[mihomes]

Would also be interested... many of my domains are EMD as this was the way to go back in the day (and imo it just makes sense). I am starting to think more and more that emds need to be handled differently from a perspective point of view. I am seeing some which have little or no content and hardly any mentions of the emd words that are ranking. It's almost like you need to purposely remove the emd name from your content in a sense... which... does not make sense if they are going to keep preaching this regular speech/non-seo content generation as you will obviously use your emd words since that is what you site is about.

[SevenCubed]

From my observations the only problem I've noticed with EMD is when someone rolls one out expecting it to carry the site rather than the content supporting the EMD.

[mihomes]

Not the case for myself and many others.

[overscan]

@SevenCubed from what I've witnessed it's actually the opposite.
Our site had been ranking top 10 for years. Our domain name wasn't that great and we decided to rebrand to the EMD for our niche. It made perfect sense. We sell *blue widgets* so we bought *bluewidgets.com*. If the EMD update is about creating a better user experience then removing any mention of *blue widgets* from our site makes no sense. I suppose it might not be so bad for us if we were just shifting boxes of blue widgets, but we're a manufacturer. We specialise in this field and have innovated for years. We also have 100s of independently verified reviews on trustpilot (giving us a 98% trust score, the highest in our niche). The whole situation depresses me.

[nomis5]

I transferred the content of most of my EMDs to larger, less specific sites several months ago. The two I have left, mainly as a test, are still nowhere in the G SERPS. They are quality sites, lots of knowledge, lots of pics and a high number of page views when someone eventually finds them.

[asusplay]

@overscan
My main site was also affected on March 13th by something, but I can't find any information on what this update was. My site was also affected by the EMD update on Oct 11th and made a partial recovery in January. However my site is not an exact match domain for any keyword, it is a 2 word domain, only one of which is a generic keyword so I have no idea why my site should be affected in the first place. What I am finding is that for my niche EMD's are occupying the top 10 in a shameless manner regardless of quality.

[backdraft7]

I still can't understand the goal of this ridiculous update and perhaps I am misunderstanding it's goal. Like overscan, our site domain was registered in 2000. Thirteen years later and all that work and Google says it's a "no-no" and kills off all the sites using an EMD? That's pure insanity. I would revise the update to de-rank obvious keyword loading in the domain, like keyword-keyword-keyword-keyword.com (using dashes) that would be understandable.

So what do we do? Do we now have to make up new nonsense words like houzz, about, ehow to rank?
My EMD has not been hit (yet) for the exact term as it appears on my domain...but I'm expecting it.

Next we'll be restricted by directory and file names, if not already.

BTW - If I'm searching for GOOGLE and their domain is www.google.com isn't THAT an exact match domain?

[edited by: backdraft7 at 4:31 pm (utc) on Mar 25, 2013]

[netmeg]

Whatever is happening now, I don't think it's necessarily an EMD hit; I'm still seeing lots of EMDs on top of the SERPs. (And so far, none of mine or my clients with EMDs have been severely hit).

[pnc123]

nomis5 - you say you transferred your EMDs to new sites with plain domain names - I assume you did a straight 301 to a new name - have you had any sucess with that?
Are you ranking same/better/worse?

[backdraft7]

I am now regretting not having the insight in 2000 to register my second choice domain name: sdg7lklfg1sjlhd4fgeiu6y.com

Now why would any sensible customer be repelled by such a unique domain name?
We need to coin a new phrase for blatantly stupid G logic.

I smell a 301 redirect "update" coming soon.

[overscan]

Yes, google is insane.
One of my sites is an EMD selling christmas cards. It only sells christmas cards. There is nothing on the site to indicate that we sell anything but christmas cards. So, google discovers a new personalised christmas card on our site that features a pop-up sign held by a penguin. Paranoid and insane google ignores the EMD domain name, ignores all those nasty links trying to fool it into believing we sell christmas cards and decides to give it it's best shot and guess the nature of this new discovery. "Don't tell me" says google "You're a sign shop!", and thus we made it top ten for pop-up signs.

[mihomes]

I truly believe part of what people are seeing has to do with backlinks as well. You have an EMD of kw1kw2.com or whatever where the two clearly describe your site offerings, products, whatever. Now, especially for some of us who have had these for 10+ years or so. Think about how other sites are linking to yours and with what words... naturally they will link to the site with, more often than not, those exact same keywords as the anchor text.

Is this wrong? IMO no not at all, but I think the algorithm might see this in a different way.

Either way, part of the original spec of the internet was for domains to be named appropriately for the content on them - it just makes sense. To use an example from earlier... you sell blue widgets... you buy bluewidgets.com... people are naturally going to search for blue widgets and in turn when people link to your site they will more often than not link to it with... drum roll... 'blue widgets'. You probably have your site title as blue widgets as well. Everything makes perfect sense, but I don't believe it does to G anymore. They would rather see everything above except the domain would be 'gfkgjdfhgh.com' where that is some non-generic, probably madeup word, that doesn't describe your site content at all. In turn, people who link to it with the same anchor text (probably your title) yet the domain now doesn't contain the kw's. Now, gfkgjdfhgh becomes associated with those words possibly whereas the emd gets the shaft.

[nomis5]

pnc123

Nothing as sophisticated as that. Just lifted the page and put it on a domain which was doing OK. The subject matter was very similar. Changed title and description but nothing else other than layout changes. Deleted the the old domain completely.

The pages now rank as I would expect them to. No problems with duplicate content.

[fred9989]

EMDs can be tricky because they represent a class of domain used by a lot of people for the purpose of promoting niche sites (aka spamming the results). This has been a way many people have made a lot of money - by (1) doing the spamming and (2) by promoting the system. The undeniable fact is that a lot of trashy sites have polluted the search results because of the EMD issue, and Google have tried to exclude them.

The problem lies in a set of key indicators which play out at varying levels and varying combinations in different niches, making it hard to predict what will and won't trigger a penalty - usually the -950 or end of results penalty, less often a penalty of NOT showing the index page but only subpages around positions 100 - 200, and less often still showing the index page around 500 - 600.

The key indicators are:
1) exact match domain name = bluewidgets.com
2) links in using the exact match keywords = blue widgets (and close variations thereof)
3) links in using wwww.bluewidgetsdotcom as the anchor text - this and 2 above can generate anchor text "over optimization" penalties
4) use of a blog for the site structure
5) meta title of "home" page tightly focuses on blue widgets
6) title of blog focuses on blue widgets
7) seo on each post focuses on blue widgets
8) H1 headings on posts focus on blue widgets
9) Keyword density > 1% (I think)

You can get away with having all of these only by chance, and it will be impossible to analyze why you are ranking, since other sites with apparently the same factors will have tanked.

But to be sure of ranking, it is necessary to avoid too many of 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8 - the mystery is always how much is too much.

I believe you can have no more than any 3 items out of 5 6 7 and 8 if you are to stand any chance of ranking. And no doubt there are exceptions.

I think the final blow for the EMD crew has been what looks suspiciously like a downgrading of wordpress based sites, or at least a change in how they are assessed.

No matter how good Google's intentions, trying to exclude the EMD spammer crew will cause a lot of legitimate sites (you decide what those are) to suffer.

I too have moved content from EMD to established sites to form new pages on those established sites and they have immediately shown up where I would expect them to.

Additionally, Google have actively intervened to turn up the criteria of trust and authority for ranking in many areas where spammers where prevalent.

[mihomes]

So basically what you just said is if your domain is bluewidgets.com then you cannot talk about 'blue widgets' or have 'blue widgets' content on it. If this is how Google is really treating things then this by far the dumbest move ever.

Do people spam, cheat the system, blackhat, etc.? Of course they will its the world we live in, but a move like this just goes against common sense and not just in the world of the Internet, but in general. Google is taking the easy way out for their 'spam' problem and essentially rewriting an integral and original part of the internet... the domain name that matches the content within it.

2) links in using the exact match keywords = blue widgets (and close variations thereof)
3) links in using wwww.bluewidgetsdotcom as the anchor text - this and 2 above can generate anchor text "over optimization" penalties
5) meta title of "home" page tightly focuses on blue widgets
7) seo on each post focuses on blue widgets
8) H1 headings on posts focus on blue widgets
9) Keyword density > 1% (I think)

I'm just saying... the site is about 'blue widgets'... so how in the world are you supposed to have content about them without doing the above? Isn't G preaching the natural speech and writing stuff heavily these days... I challenge anyone to do that following those rules - its not possible. Incoming links that AREN'T related to blue widgets - human nature will take over and use anchor text related to the name or content of the site? I am a white male... how can I force people to describe me as a green parrot?

This question pops up in my head... if you took a group of young kids and put 'stores' in front of them. Stores simply because they can related to what a store is. Name those stores the domain names and ask them what they think is 'in' the stores. Computers, BlueWidgets, Basketballs, and Syzgio... I think you see where I am going.

So, what we will end up with is an enormous amount of nonsense, madeup, ridiculous domain names on the web that nobody will have any clue what they are without going to the website and looking at it first. And guess what... if Syzgio happens to make it then you better believe there will be SyzgioWidgets.com and everything else popping up the same as we have now. Not to mention all of this is going to increase spending on adwords and overall use of Google I would assume.

Enough of the rant... I could go on and on about my feeling towards these recent changes and not because I was affected or this and that (although it adds fuel), but because it does not make sense. There are better ways to handle it. Time for a break and some gfhjdgk gdfhj..... that means whiskey and water in Google terms.

[overscan]

Apart from the serious damage to my living that all of this EMD nonsense has created, there are other aspects to these updates that make me cross. In the UK google has a monopoly for search thus if you want your website to be seen by anyone you're going to have to create (or alter) your website to adhere to google's 'standards'. You might think I'm crazy but to me that creates some freedom of speech issues. Your website will only be found by the masses if you create it the way google tell you to, which isn't necessarily how really want it to be. Google is no longer a search engine that catalogues the web. They distort the web.

[gouri]

The problem lies in a set of key indicators which play out at varying levels and varying combinations in different niches, making it hard to predict what will and won't trigger a penalty - usually the -950 or end of results penalty, less often a penalty of NOT showing the index page but only subpages around positions 100 - 200, and less often still showing the index page around 500 - 600.

@fred9989,

For the penalty in which subpages are showing around positions 100-200, are those subpages the pages that should be showing up for the keyword search or is the home page the one that is supposed to show?

Also, for this particular penalty, are there certain things that seem to cause it? Any particular areas to take a look at? I know that you mentioned the key indicators, but I am wondering if for this penalty, are there certain things that you think are more responsible for it?

Thanks.

[fred9989]

The problem lies in a set of key indicators which play out at varying levels and varying combinations in different niches, making it hard to predict what will and won't trigger a penalty - usually the -950 or end of results penalty, less often a penalty of NOT showing the index page but only subpages around positions 100 - 200, and less often still showing the index page around 500 - 600.

@fred9989,

For the penalty in which subpages are showing around positions 100-200, are those subpages the pages that should be showing up for the keyword search or is the home page the one that is supposed to show?

Also, for this particular penalty, are there certain things that seem to cause it? Any particular areas to take a look at? I know that you mentioned the key indicators, but I am wondering if for this penalty, are there certain things that you think are more responsible for it?

Thanks.

Hi - I'd have seen the index page as the one that "should" be showing. As for reasons - well, my current best guess is a simple one - that the penalties are a graded system and depend (more than any other single factor) on the anchor text and how "over-optimized" it is: first the index page goes to 500 - 600, then you lose the index page, then you get -950 penalty.

Maybe right, maybe not, but that's all I have come up with as of now.

However, I do see anchor text as the key here. If you have a blog with titles and headings and H1s all set to match the keywords, and if the search volume is over 3k exact per month, it can seem almost impossible to avoid one or more of these penalties.

[fred9989]

I'm just saying... the site is about 'blue widgets'... so how in the world are you supposed to have content about them without doing the above? Isn't G preaching the natural speech and writing stuff heavily these days... I challenge anyone to do that following those rules - its not possible. Incoming links that AREN'T related to blue widgets - human nature will take over and use anchor text related to the name or content of the site? I am a white male... how can I force people to describe me as a green parrot?

I boradly agree. It's crazy - in one way. But if the EMD crew are removed from the results, there are plenty of other sites to take their place. It's only the site owner who is affected. Especially if his objective is to throw up a site to sell stuff.

The key may be:
Buy a domain that is more complex - finestqualitywidgets.com

Use a non-blog structure

Develop varied & natural inlinks

Don't have every page with a meta title that features blue widgets - maybe just the index page and some other highly relevant ones

Write naturally with low keyword density

Ignore what the spammers are doing

Choose small miches wth high commercial potential (I find around 3k exact global searches a month can produce a decent, scaleable income.....scaleable that is by repeating the process in other niches or even more tightly focused aspects of the same niche)

Be sincere and put the customer first

Have good quality content that adds value

Hmmm.... sounds a bit familiar!

[gouri]

However, I do see anchor text as the key here.

@fred9989,

Do you think that the anchor texts of internal links are also being looked at?

[mihomes]

Fred, yes it does sound very familiar and certainly no dice by doing so - it was like that in the first place anyways. I don't know about most of you, but I've been doing this for 13 years now and would NEVER use a blog for my site structure - nothing against people who do - I just would never do so.

Anyways, I absolutely hate the fact that people now associate emds with spam, blackhat, and all these other tactics. I'm not talking about kw-kw-kw-kw or kwkwkwkw either just a simple kwkw.com or even kw.com for that matter. I don't know if maybe the spam is prevalent in their particular niche or what, but it almost feels like racism!

I can absolutely guarantee my emd's follow the 'rules' and probably moreso than most yet here I am with a complete loss in traffic these days. Funniest thing is, my non-emd domains have gone up.

The question I am toying with is 'do I 301 a 10+ year old site to some brand new domain with some 'brandable' name (I also hate how people think of brandable these days as well - it now means a madeup word that can be pronounced)'? I could list tons of possible problems doing that not to mention just the fact of throwing away 10+ years on a site, name, etc practically.

It's all bs.

[Dymero]

mihomes, is there no way to brand the EMD? For example, if your website is BlueWidgets.com, you start calling yourself that, BlueWidgets.com. Tons of companies do it to great effect.

Also, I'm having (and always have had) a tough time discussing widgets that are colored blue, because it's not tangible enough of a thing for me. So I'll use "Affordable Widgets," and pretend that a widget is some kind of tool, like a screwdriver or a wrench.

So you have a domain called affordablewidgets.com. This seems EMD enough for me, because someone might search for "affordable widgets."

I think you could get away with EM anchor linking this, if you do it right. So, imagine there's an article discussing your business.

"'A good widget is important for every DIY job,' said mihomes, owner of [[Affordable Widgets]].'"

That's a great link, because the context it's in and use of capitalization clearly suggests it's a business name. Now compare to:

"Buying [[affordable widgets]] is a cheap way to perform for every DIY job, without burning a hole in your pocket for an expensive tool you won't need forever."

That's a so-so usage. Still decent, but getting to the grayer side of things, perhaps. At least the sentence is discussing cheap tools.

The worst usage I could think of quickly is:

"When you're out and about doing your spring tool shopping, don't forget to pick up some [[affordable widgets]]."

Here there is absolutely no context about why that particular anchor text was used. Okay, it's a sentence about tools, but linking to a site called Affordable Widgets? I can understand why Google might get cranky at that.

That said, you're never only going to use that anchor text whenever you link to your site, or someone else does. Perhaps one of the links from the above example is, "an article explaining why [[cheaper widgets are a better value than more expensive ones]].

I think using an EMD is possible. You just need to be creative with your anchor text and use variation.

[mihomes]

Yeah, I know everything you just said. Yes, my emds are the company/website name and I would never use them in any other manner or fashion nor have I. Others who link to the site do the same and have so for over 10 years. So while it may be the name of the site it does not matter now for Google and I am confident that since majority of anchor links across the web reference it correctly as the site/company name it has brought on some penalty (I must be trying to game the system for these keywords - not that I choose to name my site/company that all those years ago lol). At the time it made sense, and still does, your site is Affordable Widgets so lets call it that and get that domain - not now.

Sometimes it would be nice to actually tell people a specific site so they can go look for themselves. More often than not advice is given on this board and since there is no reference it is hard to get a grasp on what the person is talking about. This would be one of those times.

Your first page for 10 year site does not happen to fall off exactly when the emd update happens and not have to do with it. I have dug deeper on sites then I probably ever have looking for any possibility something could be construed as negative and have come to the conclusion it is the pure fact of having an emd. This scenario is consistent with my portfolio as well.

[netmeg]

mihomes, is there no way to brand the EMD? For example, if your website is BlueWidgets.com, you start calling yourself that, BlueWidgets.com. Tons of companies do it to great effect.

Almost all my clients have done that, and are still doing fine. I have done that on my own sites. I just can't believe it's *only* the EMD that is the problem.

[petehall]

I'm having a similar issue with just one EMD on a competitive phrase (I manage others and no issues). It ranks no 1/2 on Bing and is currently down the lowest I have ever seen it on Google at page 21.

The site was managed by another company this time last year who ran it into some Panda issues around the end of April. I had since re-structured the entire site and re-written all content, and it slowly worked its way back to page 2 for the target term. Then recently the site started nose diving again. The site is so clean now which is the frustrating thing.

I'm not to blame for the original issue (they added around 30,000 product pages of thin / duplicate content) but I really thought I was getting somewhere and could save the site. I'm now questioning the EMD issue as it's squeaky clean.

[fred9989]

Do you think that the anchor texts of internal links are also being looked at?

Yes, that's a major feature of this whole farrago too (as I know to my cost, LOL!

For those caught in the EMD crossfire, coming up as collateral damage when the sites are clean, as Bill Clinton said, I feel your pain.

[Dymero]

mihomes, it is quite possible the EMD update had something to do with it. Obviously I don't know your site, so I can't comment on the strength of other signals, but I guess the best advice is to make sure they're powerful enough to overcome the lessened emphasis on EMD as a ranking factor brought on by the update.

[mihomes]

overcome the lessened emphasis on EMD as a ranking factor

This is another opinion of mine - agree or disagree - it is just my opinion. There never was any priority, emphasis, etc given to EMDs... other than what came naturally because you had one. Does that make sense?

I have a site about blue widgets and I use bluewidgets.com as my domain. As I have said before, naturally the site will talk about blue widgets, people will usually reference it with anchor links of blue widgets or similar, etc... it all makes sense. There was never any priority given to the EMD by the algorithm it just appeared this way, because heck, the domain is an EMD (it has keywords in it and flows with the rest of the content about the site). Following me?

What I believe this update did was either one of two things :

1 - there is an algorithm or set of rules, %s, whatever that are strictly for EMDs

OR...

2- the changes are for all domains, but only apply to EMDs (bluewidgets.com vs Shfrkyd.com where both would have the same content). In this case you could say things like is the keyword(s) in the domain, is the title in the domain, do domain words appear in page % of time, are domains words used as anchor text % of time, etc. All of which would only apply to an EMD.

So, while some of you are saying EMDs always had preferential treatment I have to disagree with you. It is not that they had special treatment or a rule specifically for them, rather, the 'boost' one would say happened was done so naturally as the domain WAS an EMD.

Now, I believe there is something like this... at least we can agree there is something specific for them as there was an update haha. Thing is I believe this update penalizes the EMD for just being an EMD or pushes very strict rules to them which almost makes it impossible to use them in a normal fashion. Whether this is intentional or unintentional based on the logic mentioned above.

Why do I believe this?

1 - I have quite a few EMDs that are very old and very well known. I do not use blog platforms, templates, etc.

2 - I have never paid for links or done any blackhat techniques. I guess you can say I was doing natural before it was 'pushed'.

3 - The day(s) of the EMD update I saw havoc on these sites - drastic - all at the same time.

4 - My non-EMD sites have actually gotten better. I think we can all agree that each of us has a type of style for our sites - it is safe to assume all sites are equally created, written, etc as I feel they are.

5 - There have been a few cases I have read about, some on here, where the individual got a new domain and put the exact same content as the EMD (301'ing the EMD to the new non-EMD ) and the rankings came right back to where they were after given time for the change to take place. Why two different rankings for exact same content just different domain names?

Given the above... how do I think it should be handled? As it was originally and equally with all other domains with something along the lines of below added:

1 - How many words are in the domain? I think it would be safe to make two... three as a certain max for an EMD perhaps with a total length rule as well. If using a '-' then this should act as a divider only and would be two words in the EMD only. Sometimes using a hyphen makes sense as it IS easier to read, but you don't want kw-kw-kw-kw and so on or kwkw-kw. Now, if you think about this... that simple rule drastically limits the amount of useable domains. Maybe even as to whether it is the .com or not.

2 - Blog patform or not? I have never used a blog platform, but either way I disagree with this. You can argue that the person didn't take the time to do their 'own' site, but lets face it there are some good blogs/writers out there that either chose this for ease or simply do not know how to do sites only write. I do not think it is fair to use this as a rule.

Bottom line is EMDs did rank better... not because they were given special treatment, but they were conducive to the algo naturally. Was that fair? Yes, it was. Is it fair that a better physical location for your store (more sales) will cost you a higher lease or purchase price then one that is not? Are these locations harder to come by? Are they readily available as much? I like to compare domains to real-estate.

Now, I feel they are given special treatment, but in a way that almost makes them impossible to use. For those not having problems with their EMDs I have to ask if you are in a small niche market or not - that is the only way I see them fairing well at all. I have also noticed the amount of terms being ranked for is targeted to the EMD, but you are not given rank for them. The keyword base/group as a whole is not nearly as diverse as it was or for a non-EMD currently.

[overscan]

Well, I finally gave up with our main EMD today and switched the domain back to it's previous non EMD name. I also put in a 301 from the EMD to the new (old!) domain. Let's see what happens :-S

[petehall]

@overscan please do report back, I for one would be very interested to know what happens.