Panda is a brilliant move. Here is one BIG reason why

[My_Media]

Hi All,
My site consider midsize to large with pre-panda traffic of 60k unique/day. Am sure that most of us feel the frustration. My site now hangs on life support of 18k/day and declining weekly.
But here is one reason why Google make a brilliant move that I give them a A++.

1. After months of searching and fixing my site. Boom! All of a sudden I figure out that is what Google want all webmaster do and be serious about your site and make it as perfect as possible so that the internet will have more and more great content.

Smart move Google. If Bing and Yahoo still sit around and not force webmaster to put some work on this site then they will lose the search war.

[philooo]

Who here consider they have been 'panda'/punished but still have a high quality content ?

I have seen my traffic grow and I have always been upset to see so many poor site rank well because all of their time and effort was going into SEM instead of content.

All the scapper/farm site are more or less a cheat to abuse the poorly educated internet users who don't know better.

Now that internet users are getting smarter by the days, Google needed to act or loose credibility.

I think they kept this game going as long as they could, to keep maximize their advertising revenue. I am glad they finally put an end to it.

Panda is a good news for a better internet.

[triggerfinger]

TheMadScientist - Please disregard the childish antics of childish people, your postings have helped me, and I'm sure hundreds of others, to better perform their duties. You are very much appreciated.
+1

[apauto]

How does TheMadScientist know that Google visitors are happier after Panda?

Google could return complete junk results and people will still use it for a while based on force of habit.

Even though I've wanted to use Bing after Panda, I still use Google.

My biggest site since Panda2 has lost 45% of it's traffic. Why?

1) Unique and original content written by me
2) No ads, no adsense
3) ecommerce with descriptions written by me, not just rewritten manufacture descriptions.

When I search for widgets that I sell that I am now on page 2+ for, the first page is nothing but forum posts, review sites, and nothing from an ecommerce site until page 2. Even articles rank higher. Not even the manufacture's site is on page 1.

[walkman]

I have seen my traffic grow and I have always been upset to see so many poor site rank well because all of their time and effort was going into SEM instead of content.

You mean like engaging in link exchange to increase pagerank? [webmasterworld.com...] :)

Not all hit sites were content farms or had anything to do with content farms. Not all hit sites were bad and viceversa.


I too noticed that SeoBook doesn't rank #1 for their own content. They even have 150 Tweets to this story. [google.com...]
Needless to say, something is fishy in Panda Land

[conroy]

I have one site that went up over 80% with Panda,a massive increase in traffic from Google.

I have another that is down 50%.

Both are extremely high quality sites. I have been studying as much as I can the reason why.

The only things I can come up with are:

- The site that lost had shorter articles. 500 words vs 1500+.

- The site that lost has shorter time on site per visitor.

- Both have very high bounce rates, nearly the same.

- Both had 1 block of adsense. The one that went way up had it right at the top, before the content. That one that got slammed had it at the very bottom of the page, way below the fold.

- Both have in text affiliate links that look the exact same.

- Both sites' content is extremely unique, and some of the best there is. Really.

- Site that won has a huge left and right nav bar with 50+ links to internal pages, same used site wide. Site that lost has 6 links in the left nav that are site wide.

I think google is using "quality signals" such as length of time spent on page and amount of content on the page.

[asabbia]

I think google is using "quality signals" such as length of time spent on page and amount of content on the page.

hm but without adsense and analytics he can't monitor that.. Maybe only with google chrome, but i don't think chrome sends this kind of data.

If that is the cause then removing adsense and analytics would solve the prolbem and i doubt it

[nomis5]

I'm with poster who found that longer articles fared better with the Panda update.

[My_Media]

TheMadScientist - Please keep posting.

+1

[Wlauzon]

The problem being we don't know what "improving" our site means in their eyes

Mostly we DO know, and have known for years.

Unique content, relevant content, lots of content.

Now of course, how unique? how relevant? how much is a "lot"?

If I sell wire, is an article on cable connectors relevant? Who knows...

[walkman]

If I sell wire, is an article on cable connectors relevant? Who knows...

To me, if I search for wire I want a wire and that's it. For Google you may need to add a stupid and useless article just to make a living.

Just searched for a keyword that also matched a merchant; Google Offers now adds one more link to ads (by expanding the original one.) And yes, Google offers are being indexed by Google. The nose is getting tighter, Google may soon go to the second page with their own links.

[TheMadScientist]

<OffTopic>
Hey, I want to say thanks to everyone who's been +1 ing and asking me to post ... I do REALLY appreciate it ... I think I've stickied all of you to let you know I saw them, but you'll all have a better discussion if you stick with the topic of the thread ... It will probably be a little bit before I post again, because it's really not fun to post right now ... There's a bit too much 'Google's wrong and if you don't think so, you must be too' rather than 'constructive conversation' and 'open discussion' right now, so hopefully people will calm down a bit and try to see the answers they are missing, because then it's way more fun to contribute again.
</OffTopic>

apauto I don't know if I would directly answer your question in person ... that why? question in your post could easily be a 5 figure question to get answered professionally, look at the last paragraph in your post and think about it for a while ... Maybe you'll come up with something besides Google's broken ... IMO Google is not broken at all ... Yes, there are sites (as always) that were 'thrown out with the bath water' ... Yes, there are still areas they could improve, but I don't things are any more broken now than they were after Florida ... IOW: If it's broken, you better go break your site to fit what they're looking for if you want to rank, because otherwise, imo, you're not going anywhere.

[edited by: TheMadScientist at 10:35 pm (utc) on Apr 25, 2011]

[walkman]

apauto I don't know if I would directly answer your question in person ... that why? question in your post could easily be a 5 figure question to get answered professionally, look at the last paragraph in your post and think about it for a while ... Maybe you'll come up with something besides Google's broken.

I understand you don't want to give advice you can make 5 figures for, if I had your gift of knowing exactly how Panda is rating I might not either. But how about telling Matt Cutts why he isn't ranking for his own blog post [google.com...] ? He is #5 on my browser and we need an answer other than Google is broken, that's impossible. I took a screenshot just in case. #1 and #5 is a lot different in clicks as we all know.

Does Matt Cutts have:
Too few links?
No social media mentions?
Thin content?
He copied it from others?
Too many ads, period?
Too many ads above the fold?
High bounce rate?
Very few returning visitors?

[TheMadScientist]

Does Google have an adaptive learning system in place that's only been there for a few months?

Done now...

EDITED: TOS!

Leosghost +1 was pre-edit of the edit, which was re-edited.

ADDED: And I don't plan or intend to make 5 figures off giving someone the answer to the question apauto had ... It's not a question I answer ... I may someday, but not right now ... I don't take SEO clients, and there are somethings you just have to figure out for yourself or pay someone to figure out for you in this game ... I have fielded a TON of questions most SEOs would charge a large amount to answer while I've been posting here.

[edited by: TheMadScientist at 10:54 pm (utc) on Apr 25, 2011]

[Bewenched]

Excellent observation Walkman.

I thought Panda was supposed to fix all the scrapers and data farms, but what i'm seeing in the results just from my own personal searches for information is those same sites showing up at the top. As a searcher I want good relevant information not what's the most recent or the most recently scraped. I'm personally searching more and more on bing because it's giving me that information first!.

[Leosghost]

@TMS +1 ;-).."pre edit"

[miozio]

"But how about telling Matt Cutts why he isn't ranking for his own blog post"
We all know why! Panda is a mess and G has been trying to fix it for two months now. If it took them a year to create this algo who knows how much time is needed for fixing it... Panda does not make sence! They will be silent about their mess! Have they ever confirmed that they f..d up something? NO! But everyone makes mistakes, we can understand that!

[edited by: miozio at 10:59 pm (utc) on Apr 25, 2011]

[apauto]

TheMadScientist - Your posts are interesting, but you're on the Google bandwagon because you happened to gain from Panda. You wouldn't be singing the same tune if your same sites took a 50% traffic nose dive.

And by same sites, I mean the same sites that you are so passionate about that have unique content.

I'm glad you at least mentioned that there are some good sites that got thrown out by accident. This alone shows the update has problems.

[miozio]

"There is statistical data that seems to indicate people need to search less since Panda rolled than they did before"

YES. i need to search less -- with Google... I chose Bing when i see garbage in G. Not only as a webmaster, Google stopped showing what i am looking for. Bottom line!

[edited by: miozio at 10:57 pm (utc) on Apr 25, 2011]

[supercyberbob]

Now I'm confused.

Matt Cutts not ranking for his own posts means what exactly, that Google is broken or not broken?

[TheMadScientist]

No, apauto, I'm not on the Google bandwagon ... I'm on the reality band wagon!

They're NOT Going to Change Their Algo for You or Anyone Else. PERIOD!

If you want your site to rank again, the 'Google's Broken' song is NOT going to help anyone ... People need to stop singing it and start trying to figure out the things they don't understand, like why the manufacturer is not #1 for the product query and why that might be okay, to get anywhere.

Grrrrr!

[edited by: TheMadScientist at 11:23 pm (utc) on Apr 25, 2011]

[aakk9999]

Not broken... just using different rules. Which may be (almost certainly will be) tweaked in the future.

It is up to us to try to figure out what these are and adjust...

<added>
"Broken" implies that after being fixed, it will revert to what it was before. I don't think it will revert back. I do think it will improve though.
</added>

[miozio]

Here is a very popular search term where G directs people to useless trash sites... "download youtube videos" Dear Google, did you know that there is one and only useful tool for this which is Firefox addon [addons.mozilla.org...] Please put it as number 1... @ TheMadScientist If you are a secret Google employee who posts here time after time, please fix that at least! :)))

[edited by: miozio at 11:29 pm (utc) on Apr 25, 2011]

[asabbia]

@miozio: are you italian?

anyway please let's not talk about taht kind of serp (software etc) because especially outside en (but even en) they are just ownt by softonic spam search

[coachm]

As I've said elsewhere the plus on this is that since we've lost almost our entire business, through changes in traffic patterns from Panda (probably) we can now go back to modifying and improving sites to suit our customers and users.

We no longer are worried about what google does, because they blew us away, such as there's nothing to lose. Also, we're going back to our non-Internet roots, marketing products and services off the web.

I'd rather not have been shaken out of a slumber, and I don't know if I'll be paying the mortgage in six months, but what the heck.

[Reno]

They're NOT Going to Change Their Algo for You or Anyone Else.

TMS is absolutely right about that ~ the Panda update is unfolding exactly the way Google wants ~ they are on multiple records saying that, and we'd better take them at their words. We think it's a disaster, they think it's brilliant. They hold the aces so they win ~ end of story.

The second part of TMS scientist quote is the part I'm not so sure about:

start trying to figure out the things they don't understand

A LOT of people thought they WERE following Google's guidelines, only to be crushed. So it's my position that we can spend a bunch of time trying to understand it all, only to find that they will change it again, but instead of them saying it's because of their catch-all empty term "quality", it will be because of their desire to be "new & improved" (or other such nonsense), and we won't know what that means either. We can play that game for years without gaining an inch.

The only advice that makes any sense to me is to build a good website that you're personally happy with, and do absolutely nothing for Google's benefit. When we chase Google, we're chasing a poltergeist, and it will haunt you in your deepest sleep.

................

[walkman]

@coachm,
I feel your pain.

Ironically Bing and Yahoo have picked on some changes I made and their traffic has increased a bit. But their index is not as large as Google, at least so far, and their share is/was about 30% of Google's for me. All I get from google is now about the same traffic and Bing+Yahoo BUT 85% of that traffic in one page (that brings me very little money) . Oh well, just caught me at a bad time, but I'll survive, somehow.

You and Reno are right, we have no choice but to turn away and keep working. Hopefully Google gets some competitors, the internet is funny that way. MSFT was a monopoly not too long ago and so was Yahoo.

[explorador]

Not every (algo) change just happens, we have seen adjustments in the past so there might be still things to come.

A LOT of people thought they WERE following Google's guidelines, only to be crushed.

I'll add: one thing is to work-follow the (rules) guidelines, and other to "play" by the (rules) guidelines. I mean some "think" they are following the guidelines but are just tweaking, no offense intented.I'm also sure many legit websites were hit. If we are about to complain then I would go first on few sites of mine that just never took off regarding -playing by the rules-.

When I search for widgets that I sell that I am now on page 2+ for, the first page is nothing but forum posts, review sites, and nothing from an ecommerce site until page 2. Even articles rank higher. Not even the manufacture's site is on page 1

IMHO I think this describes a lot of the Panda change. I've been searching for widgets only to get ecommerce sites first! this without even adding "+widget +offer +price +buy +sale".

I can tell you a while ago I was navigating on page 4-8 instead of page one to get what I want. G was allowing mostly sites that sell on their first pages. I AGREE WITH THAT, but come on, on searches without evident intention of buying? It makes sense to me if I'm looking for info, to get articles, posts and review sites instead of ecommerce sites.

Note:
1. My sites were not hit by Panda, and I'm sure they are out of comparison with many of your sites. I guess some experts see this and disregard my post inmediately for not talking about millions of visits per week.
2. If a SE is mostly giving results of sites that sell, sorry but something is broken.
3. G still has to finish off the remaining scrappers.

[apauto]

No, apauto, I'm not on the Google bandwagon ... I'm on the reality band wagon!

So Google can do no wrong in your eyes.

They're NOT Going to Change Their Algo for You or Anyone Else. PERIOD!

Never asked them to change it for me. I'm simply pointing out flaws. There is not one site you can point to that is "perfect", you can always find something wrong with it. Even yours that haven't been affected by panda.

If you want your site to rank again, the 'Google's Broken' song is NOT going to help anyone ... People need to stop singing it and start trying to figure out the things they don't understand, like why the manufacturer is not #1 for the product query and why that might be okay, to get anywhere.

When my 3 month old site out ranks my 9 year old site, and my 3 month old site has one link to it from a directory (BOTW), something is wrong.

Grrrrr!

That's how I feel.

[CainIV]

Rubbish ... Simple logic dictates if the update as an overall whole was not an improvement, as indicated, not by webmasters or what webmasters think is 'better' or 'worse', but by Google's visitors they would have rolled it back and made adjustments as they have done numerous times in the past.

This is not accurate on two fronts

1. Google search share has dropped of late. Difficult to ascertain whether this is directly due to competition, or due to unsatisfied users, but it certainly doesn't represent satisfied users...

2. There are certainly many recent changes Google has made which they have believed is great for the user but many users are unsure of. Thus no rollback.

Just because they continue to use Google for searches doesn't mean that the results are better. People are habitual. They stick with what they know until they overwhelmingly need to switch to something new.

[browsee]

I understand you don't want to give advice you can make 5 figures for, if I had your gift of knowing exactly how Panda is rating I might not either. But how about telling Matt Cutts why he isn't ranking for his own blog post [google.com...] ? He is #5 on my browser and we need an answer other than Google is broken, that's impossible. I took a screenshot just in case. #1 and #5 is a lot different in clicks as we all know.

+1 for walkman.