Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
Today we're helping people get better search results by extending Personalized Search to signed-out users worldwide
That's a staggering statement meaning that every computer accessing Google is now being personalized, signed in or not, so any desktop, laptop or kiosk will start tracking everything everyone does and you won't be able to access the same search results from any two machines.
The possible impact to all is staggering.
It is a freedom of choice that has been taken away from the user. I think this is also why it bothers us so much.
aakk9999 is exactly right.
It is the lack of choice which grates so much.
To my mind there should be two choices:
1) Google should post up a once-only alert which states:
"Google Search has switched to Personalised Search as default from now on. This will enable us to deliver results which are closer to the kinds of things you usually search for. Are you happy to accept Personalised Search as your default search mode?"
Yes [Recommended] ¦ No, I don't want this as a default mode on this computer. [You can change your mind later, if you choose this option]
2) For every search on a computer where Personalised Search is activated as the default, there needs to be a button, as Reno suggests, which states: "No Personalised Search this time, please"
That's it!
It never fails to amuse me how Amazon's personalised suggestions are completely off the mark whenever I log in to Amazon. They're always relevant to what I looked for before - which almost never has anything to do with what I am looking for this time! Fortunately, however, I can ignore the personalised suggestions and search directly for what I want instead. How can I do that with Google, when Google's product is search?
Google, just give people the choice. 99% of users will opt in anyway and you will avoid agitating the ones who don't want to opt in.
I could also see that my wife (on another computer in the house on same wifi network) is seraching for my Xmas present!
I could also see that my wife (on another computer in the house on same wifi network) is seraching for my Xmas present!
Are you saying that you can see in the history on your PC what your wife was searching on the other PC? Are you both signing in the same Google account on both PCs whilst searching?
Because if not, then the implications are more serious.
Do I need to be logged in to see it?
Where is this "History" link?
I've been reading this thread all weekend and I can't see a history link anywhere on any account. Is this only in the USA?
Does this history infomation only work when a user is logged-in to a Google property?
I do know many people sign-in to their G-Whatever account and surf from there, is this what is causing this discussion?
What about those of us who only ever check, say, our AdSense accounts, and immediately log-out?
What is the situation if one uses a third party application every day such as ccleaner?
Am I missing something simple?
I do comprehend the choice and privacy issues etc however precisely where and when is this going to affect the experienced user not logged-in to Google, not using Chrome and one who uses ccleaner every day?
I can't see a history link anywhere on any account.
Being logged in to your Google account do a search for blue widget on the default search page.
Now on the results page in the upper right corner (next to your user name) there should be a link to your Web History.
Now on the results page in the upper right corner (next to your user name) there should be a link to your Web History.
Aha...it appeared after I tired it and immediately disappeared when I removed all cookies.
[edited by: man_in_poland at 1:20 pm (utc) on Dec. 7, 2009]
Forget CoolWebSearch, MyWebSearch and Zango. Gorg has taken all those models and optimized them for the ultimate "user authorized" advertisement experience with the world's most awesome 100 year cookie. Now you can search from anywhere in the universe and get targeted service at any computer you utilize, even those in the offices of the federal government (and by doing so you are probably violating several US laws).
Gone are the days of "malicious" spyware serving ads to you via your browser. G provides the same exact content, free from the hassle of accepting any installation license or agreement. YourSearchBar has moved to the open masses, and since it was done over a 10 year period, you barely noticed what you gave up.
Congratulations Gorg, on your pure evil plan.
Ronin .what happens whan there is more than one user on a machine and your teenage kid clicks I accept so that they can watch their mates latest upload to you tube ..and the kid forgets to tell you ..you're in ..for that session ..and the next ..and the next ..etc until you buy another machine ..unless you remove the cookies ..
This is not normal cookie tracking ..this is Gorg will know what you are doing and where you are going ..even when you are not searching ..even if the last search you did from their page was months ago ..they will be tracking where you went yesterday as long as they served you an ad or the webmaster used their analytic .
Precisely usedagain..Gorg has just knocked MS of the most evil in IT spot ..MS cant follow me or you on Linux or MAC or BSD ..GORG has now put it's spies everywhere ..on all operating sytems..
Google is EVIL ..and now they don't care that we can see it ..Because most people dont know enough IT to notice or understand enough to care ..
And Gorg can just delist your website if you try to tell anyone ..
As agent Smith said in Matrix "What are you going to say Mr Anderson ..who is going to hear you" ..Gorg decides whether you can be heard on the web ..and whether people even know you exist in many countries.
I think that the folks at Google have judged that the answer to those two questions is NO! There's no risk for them and only gain.
We are bleating for two reasons:
1. We understand the privacy issues and are appalled by what Google is doing.
2. We are miffed that Google is eroding what little control we have as site owners to engineer our sites to influence our ranking in SERPS.
Google is just a web site offering a service to users and in exchange those users accept advertising and a certain amount of manipulation of their actions. Google is clearly pushing at low risk boundaries to increase its income.
Hands up anyone who makes money from their web site who isn't willing to push low risk boundaries a little in order to make a bit more cash.
I don't like what Google is doing here. I hate it because they are invading my privacy and manipulating me as a user. I hate it because I don't understand what it will do to my online marketing and I don't know what to do about it. All of my competitors are in the same boat it's just I feel like I'm up near the front and am going to feel the full force when we hit the iceberg and they are so far back and thick they probably will not even notice until there's no room for them in the lifeboats.
Cheers
Sid
Rise evil google, Rise!
I have discussed about Google to others and only receive rejection. They only talk about the free stuff they do and I tell them about tracking personal informamtion and how beautiful-sad it is the free stuff compared to the treatment others receive where there is money involved (adwords and adsense). They just don't see it.
I think G first created a need for their services and then is slaving people from there. Google knows there are people who understands whats happening, but G takes advantage of the majorities who don't get it.
They only talk about the free stuff they do and I tell them about tracking personal informamtion and how beautiful-sad it is the free stuff compared to the treatment others receive where there is money involved (adwords and adsense). They just don't see it.
Same here. Had this weekend a discussion with a friend and pure consumer who does not know anything about the web (other than firing up Google to search for stuff). He is intelligent, though, and understood what I was saying.
But he concluded that he does not bother: "But how does it affect me as user? Either I get what I am looking for, or I don't, in which case I go to another search engine. But what could I use instead of Google?" (He had not heard about Bing until then.)
Sad. Sad. Sad.
2) For every search on a computer where Personalised Search is activated as the default, there needs to be a button, as Reno suggests, which states: "No Personalised Search this time, please"
That isn't likely to be practical for people who are searching via toolbars or the Chrome address field, but it might be a nice addition to the Google Search home page.
ADDENDUM:
I'd like to see Google offer a "Search Preferences" link on the Google Search home page and every SERP. It would take the user to an options page that might ask a handful of questions like:
1) Would you like Google to provide search results based on your personal search history?
[ ] Yes [ ] No
2) Do you prefer results in specific languages?
[ ] Yes No [ ]
If "yes," choose the languages below:
[list of languages]
3) When you're searching with Google, are you mainly interested in:
[ ] Information [ ] Shopping [ ] Both equally
4) What kinds of results would you like to see on your Google Search Results pages:
[ ] General Web Search
[ ] News
[ ] Video
[ ] Images
[ ] Maps
[ ] Social-networking sites (Twitter, Facebook, etc.)
Google could use a cookie to store the user's preferences and display a "Would you like to update your search preferences?" message on Google.tld and Google SERPs every three months or so.
IMHO, personalization is likely to be most satisfying when it offers users more control over what kinds of search results they see--not just through a real-time "advanced search" dialogue, but through "sticky" user-settable options.
[edited by: signor_john at 2:51 pm (utc) on Dec. 7, 2009]
It's bad enough Google knows what you are doing when you're sitting at your office or home computer.
Via mobile handsets Google will have time, date and place of where you were and what you were doing if you ever do a Google search from your phone -- and if you log in, they can aggregate a tremendous amount of info about you by tying mobile, desktop, user account, search history and cookie data.
1) the average person understands zero about IT
2) the average person understands zero about SEO
3) the average person hates SEO ( and thinks they know what it does ..how it works ..and why it is done ..they don't )
4) the average person thinks only big scummy capitalist and virus writers use SEO ..not that Mom and Pop sites or small sites might learn and do their own ..to try to be seen above the "shopping" dreck
5) the average person doesnt understand adwords or adsense
6) the average person doesnt understand cookies or beacons or tracking
7) the average person with a computor is as thick as two short planks
8) the average person doesnt care if they can still get their pron,P2P etc
9) the average person thinks that GORG is good and never manipulates it's own results
10) GORG has been watching them for years ..and knows items 1 to 9 to be true
Isn't this a bit too Big Brotherish? 1984 never happened, so why should this?
It is rather redolent of the old structuralist/phenomenologists debate in Political Sociology in the 1970's. If everything is relativized, then there is no reality outside of your own head (PC, lap-top, iPhone!) - obviously garbage! For the record, the structuralists won.
Cheer up - it's nearly Xmas!
B
I wrote about it here,
initially I thought it was upper lower case related, but after lots of testing concluded it was cookie related.
I think just deleting cookies from internet options doesn't clear the issue either, you have to dig deeper to find the google cookies.
[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 3:06 pm (utc) on Dec. 7, 2009]
[edit reason] no blog links please [/edit]
I was logged in as I usually am. Was not aware that my wifes machine was logged in an infact if you try to go to my adsense account on that machine it needs you to log in. However on doing a Goog search I see it has my login email at the top.
The link I followed to the history was at the bottom of the serps, under the page numbers, where it says:
Personalized based on your web history. More details
I guess I was just wondering if the search history is being merged together because you have been logged in on both PCs when searching.
Or, better say, I am wondering if you log on to G., then log out, does G. still keep adding searches to your user ID since you still have the same cookie so G. knows who you are even though you logged out?
Or they did it by having the same IP for both PCs.
Maybe this is a bit far fetched, but right now I am inclined to believe that G. is invading more privacy then they choose to tell you.
El Reg finally picked this up here ..and As predicted ..the vast majority of the comments on their article show that1) the average person understands zero about IT
2) the average person understands zero about SEO
3) the average person hates SEO ( and thinks they know what it does ..how it works ..and why it is done ..they don't )
Leosghost - El Reg readers are not average persons. Most of the feedback contributors there are IT permies with a huge chip on their shoulder. They despise people who work for themselves whilst they are stuck in their 9-5 IT job hell.
You are right though about the average person not understanding IT, SEs, browsers. These are home users though and not techies of any description.
Isn't this a bit too Big Brotherish? 1984 never happened,
Is surveillance becoming the norm in most urban areas and almost all commercial establishments?
Yes
Does the government know more about us than we want?
Yes
Is there a "Great Leader" who can talk to us via a screen on the wall?
Yes
Does much of the populace go off to work in cubicle farms?
Yes
Are people being imprisoned without due process?
Yes
Orwell was a prophet -- if it's not yet his exact vision (thankfully), it's pretty dang close -- too close. All I was hoping is that Google would be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
............................
Just to check, I logged out of goog on the second machine and then did a search. That search did not show up on my history.
However it is interesting to note that it is several weeks since I logged into the second machine, since when it has been shut down every night and I was not aware it was logged in.
So if you want to check up on what someone else is doing, leave their machine logged into your account
Has there been endless war?
No, the wall came down, the missiles are being dismantled, smaller conflicts, but you’ll always get them.
Is surveillance becoming the norm in most urban areas and almost all commercial establishments?
Only the guilty have anything to worry by this.
Does the government know more about us than we want?
I’m firmly in the cock-up theory of government camp.
Is there a "Great Leader" who can talk to us via a screen on the wall?
No, just turn it off and you can have a more interesting life.
Does much of the populace go off to work in cubicle farms?
Not if they have an enterprising and risk-taking spirit, they don’t.
Are people being imprisoned without due process?
Most of us are worried about those who have undergone due process, been found guilty, are a risk but are let free to do it again.
Orwell was an interesting read, not a prophet. Dystopias, utopias, reality is somewhere in between.
Happy Xmas!
Or, better say, I am wondering if you log on to G., then log out, does G. still keep adding searches to your user ID since you still have the same cookie so G. knows who you are even though you logged out?
@Frank_Rizzo ( and they are all reading el reg and posting on their bosses time :) ..I take your point though ..I suspect with non IT people ( there msut be some who read the vulture ..just as there are some here with no websites ) the reaction would be the same
@willybfriendly
GoogleGuy (remember him?) once told us that a copy of Cluetrain was pinned on the wall in the plex. The janitor must have got it.
Only the guilty have anything to worry by this.
[edited by: Leosghost at 3:27 pm (utc) on Dec. 7, 2009]
The first question that pops to mind; how much information about a site's visit actually gets logged. They say it just manipulates personal SERPS, maybe right now thats true - However if they're tracking who goes where, and how often, I'd be amazed if that information doesn't get utilised at some point.
Using their recipe search analogy, if more people keep going back to allrecipes.com than foodnetwork.com, will that constitute as 'votes' for the former? (Hell, If I'm thinking this off the top of my head, you can guarentee some botnet hearders are putting their sales pitches together regardless of if it's true or not.)
Does the length of time on a site become a factor, and if so will part of SEO become 'trapping' visitors on the site, maybe by splitting content from one page into three and forcing the user to click around. Anything to keep the bounce rate down.
I can't see how the stuff announced is going to change anything except create the odd confusing phonecall to clients. It's what else they can do with the data that could be a game changer.
:)
Welcome to Webmaster World.
Isn't this a bit too Big Brotherish? 1984 never happened, so why should this?
I think 1984 looks lame to where we are today, and ultra-lame compared to what The Gorg has in store for mankind.
* Chrome OS and Android for ultimate tracking experience (cough). Google and your government now know where you are, and what you search for.
* Google Search as the basic, but still powerful, ingredient to the very tight mesh of tracking services.
* Google Adsense, Doubleclick, Youtube, Maps, GMail, Docs, News, Analytics, Blogger, Google DNS, and their respective implementations in 3rd party websites across the Internet, tighten the net laid out in Google Search. Apparently, the ultimate goal is to track all your moves on the web by at least any one of these services (better multiple services at the same time for better profiling). These free services are the dope for the people, keeping them docile and muted.
As I laid out before, I knew that something was wrong when I wondered whether I should post a Google critical post. At that time I still had Adsense on my sites, so it was essential for me that Google liked me. I self-censored my critical post for FEAR of seeing a "you have been banned" message in my inbox at some point in time.
Since Google now starts to hand out "life-time" sentences for their customers, without trial, they start to act a bit weird, don't you think? Who do they think they are? To me, that's worse than most governments (who typically limit sentences to months and years, and you get some kind of trial). Looking into the future, I think that a "life-time" ban from Google is probably not something anyone here wants to face at any point in time.
And now just a little mind game. Just think of this. How much would Google be willing to pay to know who hides behind the nicks of a webmaster forum that is hosting Google-critical discussions? And at what price would the forum owner actually sell? 10 million? 100 million? A billion? Two billion?
That's all pocket change to Google. They don't even feel that price tag. And now think of the consequences! WHAT IF your critical profile data would be handed over to the Gorg? Some programming intern works out an algo sifting through the log files from the past years and links that and the user profiles to the SERPs. Or rather: unlinks your sites from the SERPs. And -poof!- your sites disappear from the SERPs shortly after, based on that "we don't like you" algo?
Yes, that's where we are today. Please the Gorg, or else...!
[edited by: zett at 3:42 pm (utc) on Dec. 7, 2009]
