Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
I have read so many posts from everyone since May 2007 that my eyes are ready to pop!
Lost positions, first up, then down.... now jubilant, then suicidal...lot's of posts - but here we all are still trying to figure it all out.
In the end, while it's been said that Google doesn't owe us a living - we still need to earn a living - however we choose to.
We have had some great contributors and insight to different posts and we are still at a bit of a loss as to what needs to be done to stabilize our sites.
Please forgive me if I'm unable to list everyone's names and your contribution, (feel free to take credit and post your link) but I would like to make a list of what we know and what it means... Maybe by the end of this thread, it will all come together.
These seem to be the reasons for the Yo-Yo effect from the Summer of H--L
Is this the perfect storm? Have all these changes impacted everyone at once?
Universal (Vertical) Search
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What does this mean?
Thanks to "tedster" who had originally posted this
[webmasterworld.com...]
I think for Google to try to provide all possible results to someone who types in 1 keyword makes sense - but the problem is that the results are too comprehensive - the results don't really offer what looks like a cohesive result. How do you end up on the first page based on this new method.
Human Intervention & Algorithmic Search
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What does this mean?
So... even if we understand the algorithmic effect in part - the human intervention to alter 1 site position skews our understanding of what really needs to be fixed on the webmasters' end.
Google Directory Update
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What does this mean?
Thanks to "g1smd" who originally posted this.
[webmasterworld.com...]
Google had not updated their directory for a long while. Now that the directory is being updated, how old is the information and how many more sites have been added thereby adding more competing results that need to be first understood by us as they begin to appear in the SERPS.
ODP.org -vs- ODP.com -vs- www.ODP.org -vs- www.ODP.com
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What does this mean?
Thanks to "g1smd" who originally posted this.
[webmasterworld.com...]
Only "g1smd" who originally posted here on WebmasterWorld seems to have a full understanding of this, but from the most simplistic view, it seems to be creating havoc as Google deals with re-calculating the PR for all of the sites.
Back Links
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What does this mean?
Has Google devalued the way some backlinks are calculated relative to the PR Juice that they carry? Or for that matter, how much have they devalued the value of all and any links in the algo?
No Follow
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What does this mean?
Have more and more webmasters begun adding the No Follow tag to their links or pages and the effect is now beginning to show relative to the value for the links you previously had?
Penalties
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What does this mean?
Has Google applied all the penalties all at once? Let's say starting in May-2007 and if so... what effect is this currently having on the SERPS?
If anyone has more to add to the above list... Please do so even if you aren't sure what it means. Hopefully we can add to the list and the solutions.
ARC
If a site is seeing an extreme yo-yo up and down effect, to me it means that they are very close to some threshold that Google uses to catch spam of different kinds. When Google tweaks the algo, the threshold moves - sometimes that movement allows an unpenalized ranking for the URL and other times, the penalty kicks in.
There are so many factors involved in what Google measures and potentially penalizes - this entire forum from its first day has discussed many possibilities.
What I'm thinking is that there may be various thresholds being applied all at once to all of the above while G tries to figure out what they really want applied in their new algo.
Since it seems to have been going on for a while... I'm wondering when if ever it will settle into a more predictable pattern.
For that matter - how come we haven't heard anything from G concerning all this motion?
ARC
1. yoyo SERPS
2. supplemental page increase
I never really check on #1, but I am affected by #2.
may be various thresholds being applied all at once
I think the thresholds all are in a state of being continuous tweaked, and yes, sometimes several changes are applied all at once. The algo is no longer in any kind of steady state, from what I see.
No doubt you are right that at least a few of those elements are creating topsy turvy changes in the results multiple times a day, especially Universal search and both dmoz/google directory items.
1. Overall Link Profile
This would include the various type of links, the speed of link acquisition and the longevity of the backlinks - especially, do they disappear relatively soon after showing up, and growing in power if they last a long time. Some of this is definitely already in play, but clearly, it's less than it needs to be so far.
2. More Semantic Power
Gearing up the work begun in the phrase-based indexing patent, to better spot auto-gen spam, Markov chains and the like - as well as to better "understand" the content rather than just to do character matching.
3. Algo Tests
Especially when goofy SERPs show up for a couple days and then revert, I strongly suspect that algo experiments in are being tested. The area would not be ready for full blown prime time, but Google may well be up to the point of trying and tweaking some live tests.
What do people think about the idea of Google dialing some of the traditional algo factors way back while they test some new approach - so the test data they get stands out in stark relief? That might account for some of the more dramatic ups and downs, if true.
4. Uncovering User Intent
Many have noticed the way Google has, at times, used visible zones on the first page of SERPs. One type of possible user meaning for the search (say commercial intent) can just be plunked in the midst of a section that represents another type (such as informational intent). They've tested this kind of approach for a while with actual heavy rules separating the types.
Now they may have fine-tuned this approach and developed many more granular sub-types of user intent. They forcibly integrate those bits and pieces into what would previously have been a more "natural" set of search results. On some searches, I'm also seeing a greater number of critical or "company sucks" results on the first page - that could also be related to a more fine-grained approach to user intent.
"steveb"
It is the inconsistency that seems to be driving everyone nuts with just absoloute garbage.
I Personally see no pattern yet emerging other than it seems to be a moving target - too much radical dial turning all at once.
ARC
A recent Google patent [appft1.uspto.gov] (not new, has already been discussed at this forum) has suggested that search queries are an element of the algorithm now.
Queries (and shifts in queries) are, relatively to other factors, uncontrollable and unpredictable.
For example, over the past few days, there has probably been an increase in queries for 'new iPod'. Pages have gained and lost score points, depending on how they relate to 'new iPod' (and, possibly, on how users engaged with the pages, if they visited them); other pages gained and lost points, depending on whereabouts in the neighborhood graph they are for 'new iPod'.
Now, repeat this for the millions of individual queries, which are constantly shifting. What would we have?
My main keyword phrase on google jumps up about 300 positions in the morning on google, then later that evening drops about 300 positions or so that same day.
This has been going on for about 6 weeks or so and I cannot figure out why this is happening?
My site is about 2 years old and is well optimized. I started getting one way links about a month ago and it seems like this is when my rankings started to flux up and down daily.
My main keyword was nowhere to be found on Google, this is why I decided to go out and get more links. With the new backlinks it appears that my rankings want to move upward as indicated in the morning (when I check rankings) only to see it drop back down again that same evening.
Is this common? Am I suffering from some kind of penalty? What do I need to do to burst this bubble and rank high on google for my main keyword phrase?
[edited by: tedster at 12:40 am (utc) on Sep. 10, 2007]
[edit reason] moved from another location [/edit]
