Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
I did the rounds to check on the state of various data updates. I'd estimate that the "0.5" (not algorithmic changes, but rather responses to various spam/porn complaints + processing reinclusion requests) should go out this weekend sometime or possibly Monday. There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search, and that new binary should have the hooks to turn on the third set of data. Regarding finishing up the second piece of data, there's still two data centers with older data. Those data centers will probably be switched over by Monday. By Monday, 2.5 of the 3.5 things will probably be on.
[72.14.207.104...] looks good in general. But my sites are still gone and still much spam. However backlinks are updated.
Yeah, that's just fine. For my four word phrase, all four words appearing in the title and body of a key page on my site, a very unique string, I've gone from 72 to 86 to 94 to now 113. Very encouraging. My page rates #1 and #2 on Yahoo and MSN for the same search.
Let's face facts, people. Google is broken, they've nearly admitted to using HUMANS (OMG!) to fix or tweak the broken algo, GG already said that spam reports and reinclusion requests were being handled through Monday (done by humans), and they're not really going to tell us that their system is warped, now are they?
Don't you think an admission of guilt on their part would cause a 40% drop in the share price of their stock? And don't you think that they are now ruled by the desire of shareholders (they have a fiduciary reponsibility to them which supercedes all moral and ethical precepts) to increase the value of the stock?
Sorry to say, but anyone who thinks that Google is anything but a broken company with many, many problems which they refuse to discuss, is simply living in a rose-colored world.
And if the mods think this post is off-topic, let me remind them that I am talking here about the Bourbon update and its implications.
It's time to forego results from Google and look elsewhere toward a more stable, transparent and functioning platform.
OUT.
Please read:
Adding Large Amount of Content
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I agree to that.
I can add at least 20 pages of relevant, useful content a day (I have done a great deal of research and storing in my niche and the data is already on my computer), plus add 5 to six snippets of information to existing pages. If Goofle thinks this is somehow bad, then I have no use for their services as a reliable search engine.
I may stand alone on this, but I'm not about to have how I operate my business dictated to me by a nameless, faceless corporate monstrosity, that, by most indications, isn't even functioning properly. There are other SEs and other ways to market, advertise and promote your site.
I had added 60,000 page shop and this could have "Sandboxed" the site....There are still so many variables why my site could go down... I have done nothing wrong so I think it could be Sandbox.
When Bourbon started on some DCs Ive saw good results, the results started to disappears and now are replaced with the lowest kind of blog spam and redirects. I was expecting more with the way Bourbon started.
Thanks for those links, very interesting.
Ellie :)
An interesting consequence of this is that it's quite possible that no one at Google, even the search algorithm specialists, would be able to come up with any specific reason for the penalties afflicting obviously clean sites. So it's hardly surprising if we're beating around the bush cluelessly!
Here's hoping the network is retrained so it can tell what any human would be able to see in under a minute - that my site is totally kosher!
There's always some confusion like this, but Bourbon feels different. Maybe it's just me, but having been thru a couple of other updates before, it's striking just how clueless all the brilliant (and other) collective minds here seem to be. Usually after a short while comparing observations and theories, the WebmasterWorld threads start figuring out the specifics. A bible's worth of postings later, and generally speaking we're all still grasping at straws.
If over at Googleplex they're excited to read this thread, thrilled to see they've really stumped us all, really got us confused, then that's a problem. If their mission is to mess up the SEOs, because lately they're starting to view things as an Us vs. Them scenario, they've done remarkably well. It's also Google's self-sabotage. Maybe I'd even go so far as to call it suicidal.
The most relevant on-topic site which honestly and innocently posts its offerings is not even going to exist in Google. Google needs SEO as the very blood in its veins. The point is that if G is trying to make SEO a cryptic, indecipherable, frustrating experience without rhyme or reason, their relevance, usefulness and market share is going to suffer. Never forget how much is at stake here, and how much money there is to be made by grabbing from Google's market share, in a hypercompetitive global economy.
I sure hope there's a budding new genius geek (or geek collective) out there brewing a paradigm-shifting new search algo. And I sure hope it's open source too. It's happened before - look at the American automobile industry's former dominance, now usurped by Asian imports...Case in point: what's FireFox market share now - 30 percent already?
And here's a few quotes I liked, exracted from previous posts:
(max_mm wrote:) Google as well as other search engine should provide a utility enabling you to quickly identify if your site was penalized and the likely reasons for this penalty. I don't think anyone really want them to revel all. BUT if they did penalize your site they should explain why! and not send you guessing for the next 3-6 months {...} What many of us want is a timely explanations and appropriate mechanism to resolve such burning issues.
(Atticus wrote:) No need for government intervention. Adam Smith's invisible hand will drop G in the trash can if they deserve it. I for one no longer use G as my primary SE. I believe that G will continue to lose market share if they continue down the road they are on. Disagree? Fine. Whatever.
(Atticus wrote:) If folks want to have a serious update thread, I say, go for it {...} Somebody suggested that Brett set up a form to poll users on various info about their situation {..} This would be the way to go, because not only would it gather relevant data in an unemotional way, but it would also include industry and keyword data that we are barred from including in our posts.
Google wants to continue being Joe Surfer's first choice of search engine by giving him the best results possible.
In all likelihood, Google has made a colossal mistake somewhere along the way, or is pathologically vulnerable to certain factors that cause sites to become non-existent, for all pratical intents, in the SERPs.
I don't think so as if the results of our research today is true they won't have many users left!
We did quite a few checks on yahoo and excite today, where we are strong we are ranked high, where we are weak we are ranked low - fair enough no problem with that. All the ones above us had good content.
The same searches in Google ends up with rubbish to be honest.
>If over at Googleplex they're excited to read this thread, thrilled to see they've really stumped us all, really got us confused, then that's a problem. If their mission is to mess up the SEOs, because lately they're starting to view things as an Us vs. Them scenario, they've done remarkably well. It's also Google's self-sabotage. Maybe I'd even go so far as to call it suicidal.<
Great post!
And I wrote something in the same direction already last March.
msg #286 , March 30 2005
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msg #306 , March 30 2005
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msg #352, April 3 2005
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masg #7, May 10 2005
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Enjoy ;-)
Let's face facts, people. Google is broken, they've nearly admitted to using HUMANS (OMG!) to fix or tweak the broken algo, GG already said that spam reports and reinclusion requests were being handled through Monday (done by humans), and they're not really going to tell us that their system is warped, now are they?
What's the big deal about using humans? Algorithms just do the drudge work--it takes people to set the goals, define the parameters, and (as danny suggested) train the neural network or "black box" or whatever Google may using these days. For that matter, the Google Directory has always been edited by humans (the editors of DMOZ), and PageRank is a formula based on human opinions as expressed through linking. If you're going to assert that Google is "broken," you'll need better evidence than the fact that humans are giving input to the robots on the assembly line.
Clint, i know we have things bad but there are many terrible things happing every second in the world, google wiping our sites is bad but not in comparison to others. Don't be bitter you doing the right thing researching on here and i am positive you'll bounce back.
<snip>
I do agree that results are poor and certainly not an improvement and yes i would say that if if was doing really well.
Nevertheless, Wether or not Google is Broken or they want it to be like this, their search results are going down the tubles. Forget our own websites for a second and our individual industries. I can't even get good search results when trying to book a hotel room at a certain place or information about real estate that is not spam or anything just for my own personal use. We are no sitting here typing and whining soley because of our rankings. Clearly we have lossed what was once considered probably the best place to gather information on the internet.
What's left? An algorithm. Compete against the PhD brainpool with an open source brainpool, and watch what happens.
Anything else? You're only left with a brand name and an inflated stock valuation...
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The content is added manually, nothing is automated (when it comes to adding), and there's no chance of chance of having dupes since I've closed all the loopholes. There's no way a sober student would mark those pages as spam or as "thin affiliates".
All pages are indexed and they have been indexed at least 3-4 times since I have changed it. Now I'm forced to update some ugly site becuase that is making me some money. I'd rather stick with this, but Google disagrees ;)
When I do a site:mydomain.com at G, about 75 PERCENT of the hits are GONE! This is compared to about two days ago! I DID do the 301 redirect with non and www URL versions. Is this why?
Thanks.
I would not think that would have made such an impact in such a short time.
[edited by: Clint at 3:44 pm (utc) on June 7, 2005]
EDIT: Now in Y when I remove the www: link:http://mydomain.com it's showing the correct amount!
EFV, while your post is not worth public comment, I did try to stickymail you and got this: status: Error: europeforvisitors member StickyMail box full.
While deleting some old messages from my stickymail folder just now, I ran across a message from last year that told me about Google's evaluation program. The program was well established at that time, apparently. So, while certain aspects of Google's ranking and filtering processes may indeed be "broken," the idea that human evaluation and input are proof that Google has suddenly adopted a Band-Aid approach is contradicted by the evidence.
