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The Internet search firm insists that it needs to know what's in the e-mails that pass through its system -- so that they can be sprinkled with advertisements Google thinks are relevant.
Mod Note:
Several privacy related stories can be found here [news.google.com].
[edited by: WebGuerrilla at 8:37 pm (utc) on April 2, 2004]
I have to say I signed up to be notified by Gmail when it comes out. I have a good number of domains that I am the admin/tech for and a few more that I am the owner of. I keep a hotmail account I've had for 7-8 years just for stuff like that... problem is if I don't check it every few days (no it's not worth it for me to upgrade) it fills up, so I access it every so often and blanket delete most everything. Out of 400 emails there is maybe a couple real ones. I think the Gmail will become my new "whois" mailbox. With the bigger limit I can just clear it out every few weeks or so. If someone at the 'plex wants to look at my "grow your widget" spam mails...well at least they aren't wasted...I'm not going to read any of them. ;)
-> Your websites (Google, AdSense, AdWords, DomainPark)
-> Your newsgroup postings (Google groups)
-> Your personal thoughts and daily life (blogger)
-> Your topical interests (Toolbar)
-> Your specific interests (Search)
-> Your current interests (News)
-> Your purchasing (Froogle)
-> Your personal relations (Orkut)
-> Your personal interactions (Gmail)
Only three of those (possibly four) apply to me at the moment, but it's an excellent point, claus.
On top of all that, I would actually like to see Google introduce a mailing list product to compete with YahooGroups. Every mailing list (or "group", in Yahoo's language) is created around a certain topic, so Google wouldn't need to analyze email content to know how to target ads. And the YahooGroup emails already have ads in them since it's a free service ... at least G might be able to put relevant ads in there.
Overall, YahooGroups is pretty good email list service, but as long as G is becoming a portal, I'd like to see them try to do better. (As long as they don't decide to store the emails permanently!)
Except maybe people who use web-based emails for free ad-exchanges, link-exchanges, ad-submission , website submission and such services where lots of spam will flood your inbox -- then Gmail will be the right one to use.
In the end, will Gmail be a gigantic (1 Gb) "spam collector"? They can analyse all the spam they want because I won't be reading my gmails anyway.
If Gmail really takes off, against the odds, then marketers who use newsletters / autoresponders to send information to subscribers will lots of relevant competing ads from Google ... need to think about this one.
I could not find anything in Yahoo's privacy policy that says that they will not consider the content of your email when sending advertising to you. And they sure seem to have a lot of users. I would bet that hotmail is the same way, and they are certainly owned by a company that I would not trust to keep out of my private e-mail.
Most people don't know much about protecting their privacy, or they just don't care.
I will get an account, but nothing sensitive will go to that address. And I suspect that I will love the features that I get because they are able to have access to the content.
Very good point, I had not thought about that one. Can you imagine, all of the web sites that send out weekly great deals. Travel related for instance. They think they have the total attention of the reader, but nope. Competition ad on the right (or wherever) side of screen.
I can think of a several reasons admins may choose to not accept gmail users to their lists or any outgoing smtp traffic. Legal concerns with the archive of sensitive data by a third party could make some businesses block gmail (in and out). Interesting stuff.
Try this question on for size:
Who would you trust more with your free email account: Yahoo, Microsoft or Google?
The answer for me is clear. Google all the way!
A question here to the more knowledgeable. Does Yahoo, Hotmail, and other major web based e-mail providers include ads somewhere on the page when people read their e-mail on the web? If the competition to Gmail also are putting ads on the page, then Gmail is no worse than the alternatives.
>Most people don't know much about protecting their privacy, or they just don't care.
Most people when it comes to e-mail aren't corresponding about things that they really have to worry about privacy. If Kim sends Suzanne her chocolate chip cookie recipe, does she really care if someone else may read it? Most people aren't sending e-mails containing legally incriminating stuff, or trade secrets that if they got to the competition could result in economic loss.
Also, doesn't the alternatives to Gmail offer the option to leave on the server read e-mails? If so, then Gmail is little different than them, other than the length of time they will store e-mails due to space limitations. And, Google is advertising this archiving of e-mails as a *feature*. Those who are disturbed by this won't be signing up for Gmail accounts. However, Suzanne may if she loses the printout of that chocolate chip cookie recipe Suzanne sent her.
A question here to the more knowledgeable. Does Yahoo, Hotmail, and other major web based e-mail providers include ads somewhere on the page when people read their e-mail on the web? If the competition to Gmail also are putting ads on the page, then Gmail is no worse than the alternatives.
Hotmail does yes.. most of which refer to msn affiliates, etc. But there IS a BIG difference. Advertising based on your personal emails is a lot different than a standard ad which isn't personalized. Anyone who views these two concepts as the same obviously has no real concern for their own privacy.
>Who would you trust more with your free email account: Yahoo, Microsoft or Google?
What do you like to have for dinner tomorrow: a rat, a worm or a spider? Thanks, i prefer Filet Mignion Café de Paris.
This is quite a generalization. In the US real estate industry, online forms and contracts sent via email is becoming the norm. One of my clients is an executive headhunter. He is the only person I know who makes mid 6 figures and doesnt use a cell phone. But his email never ceases, with salary requirements and job offers extended via email.
There are a lot of educated, successful people in this world that take security for granted. They toss social security numbers aroud like phone numbers in a bar. They just dont get.
"We want to organize and present all the world's information," Rosing said, who added that the service will be formally launched in "weeks to months".
If this statement doesnt spell it out, then nothing does.
Exactly! Unfortunately, Joe Public doesn't realize this. And Google is going to look like they're snoopers.
Google isn't going to look like anything to Joe Public. Joe Public never reads the terms of service.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The Bill of Rights, people. With regards to Google, I'd like to offer the suggestion that we are Blinded By the Lights.
Jpell
The government cannot abridge your right to free speach, but in my house I am allowed to abridge that right. You have the right to peacbly assemble and the government cannot take that away from you, but you do not have that right in my living room.
In exchange for the use of their servers, you agree to their terms.
I don't typically send critical information using any free account, but I would certainly trust Google above most other free email providers.
Why? Do you have any guarantee that that in 5 years they aren't owned by a Bill Gates, Barry Diller or Rupert Murdoch? Would you trust them with this?
With carinvore, the feds are reading all your e-mail
Carnivore, if I'm not mistaken, is a box that gets installed temporarily at a certain location to scan emails belonging to a certain suspect. Not a box that archives and analyzes everyone's mail for the purpose of targeted advertising.
monopolistic search engines
There are currently no monopolistic search engines.
Note I wrote *most* people. For my statement to be true, it merely has to apply to something more than half of all people who use e-mail. Certainly people who are exchanging sensitive business information that could be used by competitors if if got into their hands would be one of the other cases besides people who would worry about law enforcement getting access to their e-mail. In particular, it seems reasonable at least in theory that someone working for Google, if they knew a Gmail account belonged to a corporate bigwig, would read all the e-mail that account received. Such inside knowledge could be used to make a killing in the stock market if it involved material inside information.
However, I'd say only a few percent of e-mail users have to worry about things like this. Gmail would be very successful so long as the vast majority were unconcerned about security issues.
Also, I don't think we need to worry about big brother or corrupt governments because history has proven that oppression is not sustainable. The worst that would happen is that Google would figure out that I like playing the drums and would unobtrusively tell me about great deals on a new set. That doesn't sound so bad. It's not like they will learn something from my email that will teach them how to throw me in prison. Besides if I were oppressed by what Google learned from me, they'll loose advertising revenue. The Google business model is based on being useful. If they loose that business model, they will loose their users. Google is not dumb.
Sure it might feel strange to see ads next to your email, but if you don't like it, just ignore it. Besides I think it would be great if my girlfriend sent me an email about what should we do this weekend and some current events popped up for inspiration. It sounds to me like a beautiful symbiosis.
And if a human being at Google wants to read my email from my grandma telling me about her tulip garden or the request I sent my programmer to update my client's bio, go for it. And I don't think they would have time or interest to read the billions (or maybe trillions) of emails they would process daily.
What do I care if they know what pages I like to surf or what I talk about in my emails. I have nothing to hide. And if I do, I probably won't send it via Gmail.
I'm looking forward to Google getting to know me better. I could use some good suggestions about what to do with my life.
It makes me feel uneasy.
This is another way of generating more of the spam that may eventually kill the Internet. Many valid points have been made about the fact that email can never be made completely secure. What if some hacking company breaches Google security? (And don't tell me it cannot happen). What if they lift a few Googlebytes from Google's bank of personal information about you?
The point has also been made that email should not be used for sensitive or private matters. How many times have you received an email about a private matter and rather than just replying you have stood back and said, "Wait a minute, this is private, I had better telephone or snail mail a reply."? I would be confident in stating that none of us can make this claim.
Another point that struck me was that Gmail's "reader" will be able to determine when people are exchanging information about paedophilia and the other similar horrors that pollute the Internet. Is it going to stand back and let these people continue to chat away using Gmail? If not is there not a moral dilemma here? I would like to think that they would be passing this stuff on to the appropriate authorities but where does it stop?
I for one hope that it never happens and I look forward to the day when we all have to pay for our email. Then those of use who need to use it occasionally for the legitimate business purposes for which it was originally developed will not be plagued but those who abuse it.
What if someone hacks a Hotmail or Yahoo account? If they can, then they can read all e-mail sent to it. Gmail would just be the same. As for a hacker lifting huge amounts of information, this would only be an issue if Gmail offers no option as to how long e-mails will be saved. If Gmail has "delete all e-mails after 30 days", this isn't an issue.
What if someone hacks a Hotmail or Yahoo account?
The same thing could happen with them. As I say the sooner we have to pay for email the better. You did not comment on the more important moral dilemma?
On the privacy issue:
I used to work in telecom and the police were able to request us to put bugs on people's lines in the exchange. I am sure the same applies to gmail.
The thought of the tax man reading my private mails sends a shiver up my spine.
Your requested by ISP ( url log files ) are kept for one year ...police access is "whenever" ....
proxy programs such as "steg" are not allowed to connect to the ISP....
You can via external proxies in other countries ...for how long ..?
Possession of better than 128 bit crypting is illegal .
Some ( non illegal ) sites are blocked ....
You are technically required by law to show and have approval from the government of your ( any )material before posting it on websites or forums ...(this is almost never done but there have been at least 2 prosecutions in the last 5 yrs )...
Hostcompanies are legaly responssible and can and have been prosecuted for the material in their clients websites .....
Legislation currently passing easily through parliament will make it obligatory for ISP's to block access to certain sites or subjects on the internet depending on their content ( this to be done by filtering actively via a sort of "LSI" system ..China and Birma use similar as do certain other states )...
ISP's who do allow their clients access to such material may be prosecuted and face fines or jail ...
Emails will be blocked if containing certain words or phrases to be determined by the government ...
For 10 years the government routinely intercepted and recorded 20% of all telephone calls in the country ....
Where I hear you ask?
Look for the Eiffel tower ....
It is one thing to say it is possible for someone / something to read your email, but google is not hiding anything, they are saying we will crawl your email and it will be analyzed for keywords, thats how adsense works, thats what will happen. No other way of figuring out the content is possible that does not involve scanning the email.
This just sounds like a BAD idea from the start. A poor attempt to try to increase advertising revenue while ignoring other ethical issues that surround the idea.
