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Now another site, where the index page is gone

but they have included pages which I have a dissallow in robots.txt

         

zeus

10:10 am on Jul 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I dont get this, they where so close to a good index 2-3 month ago and now slowly they are getting into google problems, i realy like MSN because it has different results as google, still good, but now we see a lot of blogs, subdomains, missing index(main page) pages and they include pages which had a dissallow in the robots.txt, so what is happening here.

msndude

11:38 am on Jul 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Robots.txt tells us not to crawl a site, and we try very hard to honor that. If you have an example where we are crawling a site despite the robots.txt file, please let me know ASAP.

Robots.txt does NOT tell us not to INDEX a site, however. If your site is so popular that it has thousands of inbound links from good sites, we may decide to index it without crawling it. That's what results in a search engine result with nothing but a URL; we don't have an abstract for the page because we couldn't crawl it.

AngeloB

3:11 pm on Jul 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi, i have noticed that your are re-indexing pages not as often as you used to? Is it true?

About a year ago it was like every 10 days, and then until a month ago it was like every 3-4 days.. now it appears to be every 10 days or something again for most of my sites.. did you do that on purpose or is it just my sites?

Thank you..

msndude

3:31 pm on Jul 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



No. If anything, we're indexing more than ever. What I think happens here is that whenever we make a change some sites get more attention but some sites probably do get less. The people who got more attention don't post anything (unless they got TOO MUCH attention), but the ones who are getting less speak up. This can make it sound like there's a trend when there's not one -- or even when the real trend is in the opposite direction.

LunaC

3:39 pm on Jul 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



What about noindex in the robots meta tag? How is that really read by MSN (or the other SE's for that matter).

I'd rather certain pages (contact forms for example) are not listed in any way, not even just the URL. Any way to really block it?

msndude

4:14 pm on Jul 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If you check out [search.msn.com...] you'll see that we do honor the robots-related metatags as well. That's the way to tell us you don't want certain pages cached or indexed. Robots.txt just tells us you don't want them crawled.

CainIV

6:41 pm on Jul 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Just curious while we are on this topic, what about permanent redirects? This was one place I think could some work, as both the domain root (http://examplesite.com/) and the default page (http://www.examplesite.com/index.html) are being indexed despite a valid 301 redirect in place in htaccess asking index.html to be directed to the canonical version of the site.

What is also happening is I am seeing searches where the root of a website is ranked well along with it's own other version (index.html) thus two of the same page.

AngeloB

9:54 am on Jul 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thank you for the reply.

Is re-indexing totally "by chance", or is there anything you could do to be re-indexed more often?

By for example updating the content every few days - or isn't that related to re-indexing?

msndude

2:34 pm on Jul 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Cain: Better handling of Redirects and Duplicates are on our list.

Angelo: Why would you want to be indexed more often if your page isn't changing?

AngeloB

2:46 pm on Jul 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Dude,

I believe that besides a re-index, a site is also being re-evaluateed upon a re-index (i.e: recent backlink being used to re-evaluate the site).

Usually you only see recently re-indexed sites gaining many positions. I think it has to do something with re-evaluation happening immediately after a re-indexing. That's just what I believe and why I think it's important to know why some sites are being re-indexed more often.

haukacik

8:43 am on Jul 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hello,

I would like to know why my website www.jaguar-dream.com has lost its positions in msn. It used to be in TOP10 results for keyword jaguar for many months and now index page is not listed at all.

Can you PLEASE investigate and check that?

I have a network of 45 websites www.car-dreams.com and almost all of them have the same problem.

Thank you very much

Marian

msndude

3:39 am on Jul 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As one of my rules, I won't discuss the problems of a specific site in the open forum.

In general, if you think your domain has been "blacklisted" as a spam site, send an e-mail to webspam@microsoft.com. That's also the e-mail to use if you want to report a site that OUGHT to be blacklisted.

zeus

7:14 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



ok the index page is back, thats great.

One thing for sure and I think we ALL agree on this MSN realy try to combine good search and relation with serious webmasters, quick reply, quick solutions and they realy have a ear to problems, hmm I know a SE who can learn a lot of that, damn I cant remember the name.

katheesue

8:25 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



My index page is still missing from MSN SERPS, even searching for the three word phrase which is the domain name.

Nowhere to be found in the MSN search results.

katheesue

8:29 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Since yesterday, the (examplified) search

site:threewordphrase.com on msn is now showing that the index page does exist. It was not there last night.

The main page is still not showing up in any search results on search.msn.com.

katheesue

5:55 pm on Jul 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



... the saga continues - today almost my entire site on msn.com has gone url only.

CainIV

10:35 pm on Jul 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Check that your pages can be accessed properly by the msnbot by using a bot or spider checker. When those pages goes url only for me it has usually meant that msnbot didnt get to those pages, although I am sure there's other reasons for this phenomenon.

Check that your root is indexed using url:www.yourdomain.com/

katheesue

2:46 am on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



369 pages crawled yesterday with status 200.

My index page was not one of those crawled.

339 pages crawled on the 21st and my index page was crawled with a status of 200

64.4.8.130 - - [21/Jul/2006:08:41:40 -0700] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 ----- "-" "msnbot/1.0 (+http://search.msn.com/msnbot.htm)"

The msnbot is getting in and finding pages - there are about 150 more pages in the index today than there were a couple of days ago.

It is the index page which is being ranked strangely.

Scott_F

3:25 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have one site (homepage) that on Friday jumped to #5 for it's main term, up from bottom of page 2. Saturday it dropped totally (index is gone) and now an interior page has taken it's place, but at the bottom of page 2.

Can no longer find the homepage again.

JoeSinkwitz

7:25 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Scott_F,

I'm seeing this for one of my sites too, where the index page no longer ranks and the next highest ranking belongs to an interior page (though mine is significantly further down in the serps than page 2).

Any idea why this might happen MSNdude; it's rather curious.

Cygnus

katheesue

12:30 am on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This is exactly the situation I was trying to describe.

www.example.com with thousands of backlinks is gone

www.example.com/widgets/ with three backlinks ranks where the index page was for the past couple of years.

www.example.com/stegdiw/ with ten backlinks ranks right after the above example.

msndude

3:13 am on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm still waiting for someone to send me an actual example of this. So far every case was either a) a site that was blacklisted for being spam (correctly or incorrectly) or b) the pages actually were in the index, they just weren't ranking quite as well as the person wanted them to.

katheesue

3:41 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have sent you an actual example. Several times.

The index does not show up for any searches.

Sub pages show up for searches where the index page belongs and where it actually was until recently.

Search for

Three Word Phrase

which is the domain name

threewordphrase.com

Actually, I just checked it again and the index know shows up fourth for that search, right after a url only listing the site is still mostly url only listings.

I made a change to the .htaccess file a couple of days ago due to some feedback in the Apache forum here on www.

If you have the missing index file, check this thread and see if you have the same setup.

[webmasterworld.com...]

katheesue

6:05 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



MSN lists 15,528 links to the index page and only 3838 links to the sub page on the same site which they list first. It seems very peculiar.

twebdonny

9:06 pm on Aug 5, 2006 (gmt 0)



Today our index page stopped ranking as well, for no apparent reason. It's in the index; however, buried deep, whereas it was showing in the first position previously. Because of this, the rest of our site seems to be carrying some type of penalty that is dragging the remainder of pages down in the Serps. What to do...? Without the index page as first position, the rest of your site will suffer. Hoping MSNDude can look deeper into this, as replies from help at MSN take weeks which is devasting for a small business.

twebdonny

3:48 pm on Aug 6, 2006 (gmt 0)



Well, because of the issues with our index.htm page being suppressed, we have lost virtually all traffic to our site, and with that, ecommerce, that helps us keep in business. Hopefully, the issues creating this will be resolved soon to avoid us having to close down. :(

As I said previously, our index.htm is not missing, but suppressed for some reason, causing our entire domain to lose all ranking in the SERPS. What a lousy weekend this is turning out to be, just when things were beginning to get back on track.

[search.msn.com...]

Does not show company in results now.

:(((

caveman

1:25 am on Aug 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



With the caveat that you never know when a SE will react to reports or not, there are all sorts of examples of what you're talking about, so, I would doubt that these latest SERP's from the 5th would last long.

This is the second time in the last six months or so that MSN came with a mixed up set of results. Last time they did it, they rollled it back fairly quickly.

As for the SERP's we're seeing since the 5th, if there is some reason that they don't like a site, that is one thing...but that is not what we're seeing. What we're seeing are site homepages that previously ranked well for their main kw(s) drop two or three pages, while a far less important or less relevant subpage appears to more or less take the place the homepage previously occupied. Point being: They are just not featuring the most relevant page for the query.

The SERP's across the three SE's are, overall as a group, more cockeyed than I've perhaps ever seen. IMHO, all three of the big SE's right now are suffering to a lesser or greater degree from over doing it on various kinds of "kw overuse" and "similar page" filtering. Y! especially is suffering from the right site/wrong page problem, as MSN also now appears to be doing. G is knocking out too many pages altogether, usually when they feel the pages too closely resemble each other, I think.

These aren't preferences of one site over another; these are just getting the page scoring and/or filtering wrong.