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MSN Search Technology Preview -- Round 2

     

Sharky

12:37 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Check out the "second peek" at:

[techpreview.search.msn.com...]

I heard that they have more than 5B pages in the index this time.

steveb

10:01 am on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Go to the advanced options (where you can get 100 results showed). For me the co.uk had me located at the location of my ISP (California).

Dayo_UK

10:05 am on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Anyway - the results seem pretty US based wherever you look, looking for the word "uno" on .es is guving me web pages in English not Spanish. (38 million results though)

As per steveb - you can set your language in the settings option too - I assume that ISPs located in Spain are showing Spanish language search results?

Receptional

10:24 am on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)



I see what you mean now Dayo.

It has got my location out by quite a way, but scary to be told I am in Guildford, Surrey, UK even if I am in Bedfordshire. Changing that doesn't seem to change results at this stage though.

There is a query builder that has a drag bar that doesn't work in Firefox (Oh why am I not surprised?) and also doesn't seem to affect results just yet, but a nice to have idea.

I assume that ISPs located in Spain are showing Spanish language search results?

At the moment it won't even let me see only results in Spaninsh, even on the .es site. It lets me change my preferences (when cookies are on) to Spanish results only, but I still get English pages only.

Without Cookies it doesn't let me change preferences, but it looks like the engine is not actually reading my cookies at this time (or maybe that is a firefox thing too).

[edited by: Receptional at 10:37 am (utc) on Oct. 1, 2004]

sem4u

10:35 am on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member sem4u is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



It is looking very good, especially for me ;)

Leosghost

11:32 am on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I can get into the Uk page via the link here ..but the .com typed into the address bar redirects to msn France.

Don't know about the credibility of their results tho ..I tried a two word term in French that Google and Y gives around 40K results ..MSN ( new ) now give 2.9 million!..

All based on the first word!...plus it asks me nicely if I wouldn't rather misspell the word ( which was in French and correct ..to another version minus the final "e" which then isn't a word in any language! )...

Looks beautifully spammable tho ..

Think what WebGuerrilla said last time still holds.

plus ...if you know enough about SEO to know what a keyword is ( which thankfully 99.99% of webmasters dont )..you can make it do pretty much what you want ...

I'd say ..spam it before it wakes up :)

phantombookman

11:46 am on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



They are the best results I have ever seen on any search engine (in my field)!

There is little to no SEO in my area and results are very static for most engines. Interestingly this MSN search does seem to be placing resource sites in about the right order of quality and usefulness.

Googles heavy reliance on backlinks means it is impossible to get past the old grandfathered sites even though many remain untouched for years.

I really do hope it remains roughly the same and that they promote it enough to break the Google stranglehold.

Regards
Rod

2oddSox

11:56 am on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'd be surprised, especially considering they're trying to take on Google, if this 'preview' is showing too much of their hand in terms of the final algo and the kind of results we might see.

They don't need to reveal too much to get a lot of exposure and probably untold amounts of feedback. All in all though, much better than round one.

goodroi

12:51 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator goodroi is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Connecting from NY and they are limiting me a maximum search results of about 1000 and backward link all max out at 2,305.

ibm.com has 835 pages
geocities.com has 820 pages
etc.

Nothing changes if I click through the results. It appears they are limiting the results depending on where you are connecting.

As for the quality of this site it is better than before but it still is bad. I am seeing tricks that stopped working years ago, working great on msn. Hopefully this is because I am only seeing a small portion of their index. But I doubt it. Actually that makes me happy, my seo job is going to be easier wth MSN :)

goodroi

1:02 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator goodroi is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



MSN Forms Search Focus Group
[eweek.com...]

SteveB did you get invited?

Side note - MSN has had 3 articles in three days and a new tech preview. Me thinks they are trying to launch for the holiday shopping season.

Chndru

1:21 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I don't know what you guys seeing. But from what i am seeing, their relevance is not even close to a third-rate SE. Long way to go.

makemetop

1:42 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)



Well, apart from my own site ranking for zip - it looks a lot better than the last iteration. The tests which I run to compare relevancy on the major engines rank MSN very well - much better than Google in these (commercial) areas, IMO.

And no, that's not because I rank better in MSN - but I do OK.

george123

2:19 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



pages penalised from Yahoo ,Inktomi are back in the new (test)MS search

thumpcyc

2:41 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hey Receptional,
I was right for about a week! Just because it is up and working today, does not mean it was a false alarm when I posted. I tend to remove links ASAP when they do not work, so that my visitors do not get timeouts, or false expectations, I belive it leads to a much better experience, that is the only reason I posted what I did.
;-)

But now that it does work, Right On MS! Bring it on, looks good, a bit more on target., much larger index with quality results.

Roll it out, Let Her Fly,
We are all waiting, It's, Do Or Die
Google is quivering, & Yahoo The Same
Waiting For MS To Get In The Game
You got the money, you got the clout
You got the thing finished,
So Roll it on out!

;-)
Thumpcyc

Thumpcyc

Receptional

2:52 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)



LOL Thumpcyc - glad to know that I am not the only person excited about the prospect! Let the poetry competition continue in foo!

It is clear that many of the functions (infact the whole query builder thing and even the help button) aren't working, so I am surprised they gave us a glimpse of the layout - but if all those little features DO work, then Google are going to have some catching up to do. Maybe Yahoo will bring back that really neat All the web advanced interface that actually allowed us to do useful things like find proper backlinks that you could believe in and stuff.

I guess USA is only just waking up now, but certainly we have been seeing the results changing as the day has worn on, which suggests this thing isn't static.

Is it me - or is it getting slower though?

Dixon.

Dayo_UK

2:56 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Lol - I am excited too.

First time I have woken up and looked at search engine results and seem something positive.

OK - there maybe some problems that need ironing out - but It will just be soooooooo good not to rely on one or two sources of traffic.

I am sure the image results were not working first thing but are now...

mat

3:21 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hmm - I tried some searches in pharm-ink-gambling land and couldn't come across a single site with more than 2 hyphens in the domain name. Have they really made such a simplistic call?

Not that I have any myself, natch.

Dayo_UK

3:22 pm on Oct 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The "MySearch" Function from the Home Page now works (did not earlier.)

Does not seem to work from the Serp pages.

The function remembers your previous searches (Listed at the bottom of the serps.)

Nothing to hard to program - not a bad idea though.

skunker

3:38 pm on Oct 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've been trying to access the page and I keep getting a "down for maintanence" type message. Is this correct?

cleanup

7:42 am on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thats right they took it down early Sat morning.

Must be thet they have enough feedback now for "round 3" or Release!

msndude

7:13 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



We just wanted to let everybody know that "Tech Preview -- Round 2" is now available.

Check out [sandbox.msn.com....]

-msndude(msd)

Dayo_UK

7:23 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi msndude

The search on that page seems to go to the same results as per existing MSN (eg Inktomi) - rather than what was seen a few days ago......

While this look more like it:-

[techpreview.search.msn.com...]

;)

(Although not the same interface as a few days ago and not as many pages indexed - perhaps we had an even more advanced preview of what is yet to come?;))

msndude

7:31 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Dayo:

The search engine results at [techpreview.search.msn.com...] are the results of Microsoft's new algorithmic engine. These are not Inktomi results.

If you are experiencing issues we can take this offline and see if we can work it out.

-msndude (msd)

Dayo_UK

7:38 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



msndude

I must have got confused - you linked to sandbox page initially.

Thanks for the clarification.

If you are experiencing issues we can take this offline and see if we can work it out.

Not at all I am personally very happy with the new set of results.

peterdaly

7:48 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It's working for me right now. Additionally, it is showing pages of mine which are not in or banned from inktomi, so I'd guess it really is from their own crawl.

Looks like the have added site clustering, much in the same way google displays 2 pages per domain max per serp. That seemed to be the biggest complaint last time around.

skunker

7:58 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



MSNdude,
Thanks for letting us know the new URL (and the correction). I look forward to using MSN's search in the future.

dcheney

8:30 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



FYI, add "&count=100" to the url from a query to get a lot more results per page.

Dayo_UK

8:40 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Looking a bit more at the current batch of results.

IMO - the results from a few days ago were far superior.

Oh well - we will just have to wait and see what the final/later releases are like.

Imaster

8:46 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The index is much smaller than the earlier one a few days back, but the speed and relevancy looks better to me for the keywords I checked so far. The speed has vastly improved from the sneak a few days back and indeed the clustering does look like Google's. Nonetheless, since we are quite familiar with that look, it would be a welcome :)

For several sites I monitor, this index shows only 5-10% of pages crawled and it looks the same way for a lots of other major sites. I am particularly very happy with the serps due to my self-interest ;) You know what I mean.

Msndude, how many more days for the final version to become live?

The link with the '.' on [sandbox.msn.com....] shows MSN Newsbot Beta page to me.

[edited by: Imaster at 8:57 pm (utc) on Oct. 4, 2004]

nalin

8:57 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Much improved from round one.

Not that the placement of my sites is the end all be all, but I am mildly visable and if SERPs were to stay somewhat similar to their current state then optimization for multiple engines would seemingly be do-able.

Overall I liked the results with the exception of the weighting of keywords in domains. Something (relativly popular) akin to green widgets, gave me 9 consecutive results where green widgets was contained in the domain.

The focus (compared to that of round one) has definatly shifted to encompass more off page factors, which I tend to like, but to each his (or her) own.

dcheney

8:59 pm on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Most of my search engine use is for research into lesser known historical folks. This preview isn't doing so well for that sort of thing. A few notes:

* its finding a lot of cases where the search terms are minor on the page (even when they are major on another page on the same site). For example, its finding the terms on a list. And the term is actually a link to a full page on that term. (Where obviously returning the full page on that term would be a lot better.) Not sure if this is because it didn't crawl deep enough or whether it places no value (or even negative value?) on having the terms in the page title, headlines, etc.

* sometimes the headers are pretty silly, I especially like this one "Results 1 - 6 of about 3 containing [term]"

* generally doesn't have the depth, but thats not surprizing given that its a preview

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