Javascript Reliability/Penetration

Who got JS?

[Peb0]

Hi all,
First of all... Is there a FAQ? I only ask because this question has to be close to a top 10 question.
Otherwise I assume this must have been asked umpteen times in here already but I just couldn't find it in the 12000+ posts (search didn't usefully narrow the scope).

I need to implement a pop-out menu. My clients first choice is Flash (and this is complete). I need to offer an alternate menu for non-Flash enabled visitors and am considering a javascript solution. My only hesitation depends on the % of penetration or effectiveness this solution will have.

Does anyone know or can anyone point me towards information explaining what percentage of browsers currently in use support JS? (for an absolutely positioned div, whose visibility is toggled via javascript)

Cross browser/platform compatibility is very important but we are also willing to limit how far back we ensure that compatibility (I'm not building to work in Netscape 2.0 :)

Peb0

[RonPK]

Lies, damned lies and [thecounter.com...]

It's usually not that hard to make a site accessible for users w/o JavaScript, search engines included. Just make sure there are ordinary links for them to follow.

[Peb0]

Thanks RonPK. I've put that into my bookmarks.

Nice numbers to see but here's some of my thoughts. Anyone jump in a straighten me out if I'm not thinking right.

This summary shows 94% JS 1.2+ and 5% non-JS.
Really this means that 1 in 20 visitors don't have JS enabled and this seems like a lot of visitors to "lose".

I guess what I actually need to know is... What percentage of users don't have flash AND don't have JS?

We aren't going to implement 3 menus and the Flash menu is a must. If the difference is too high, I will just have to design a strict html menu but I was hoping to simulate the functionality of the Flash menu in JS so that our visitors would mostly experience the website the same way.

[RonPK]

> What percentage of users don't have flash AND don't have JS?

Hard to tell, because the technique used by thecounter.com requires JavaScript enabled in order to detect the Flash player. But my guess is that both are often blocked simultaneously by sysops of large networks (out of some weird paranoia ;) ).

But there really is no need for 3 menus: it's easy to make a javascript menu have basic functionality for people without js. Just put in some ordinary hyperlinks. Like I said, search engine spiders will appreciate that too, as they have great difficulties with interpreting Flash and JavaScript.

[Peb0]

Ahhh yes... man-o-man what a silly bunt!

If Flash enabled then... show the Flash

otherwise...
Create the menu as regular html.
Create sub menu pages as regular html.

If JS is enabled then disable the submenu page links and show the fly-out menu instead (on non-JS browsers the fly-outs just won't fly out). Both versions could be identical divs just displayed in different ways.

A snippet example:

<script language="JavaScript"><!--
function intercept(what) {
what.href = '#nolink';
}
//--></script>

<a href="http://www.MySite.com/SubmenuPage1.htm" onClick="intercept(this);" onMouseOver="FlyOut('subMenuPage1');">Menu Option1</a>

Peb0