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the point is that he was wishing for the IT guy to be fired. Notice how is concerned about HIS job prospects. The IT guy sure was lazy and careless, but trying to get him fired, or even wishing so, is mean spirited.
I do not know about UK laws but in most countries to expell someone from college a certain procedure has to be followed and it is something that cannot be decided simply by the principal but has to be decided by special board. This normally consists of teachers and represantatives of parents and students.
Where you even heard in a proper manner or was it just a argument of IT guy, principal and you and then a letter declaring your expellation?
@walkman
I think what the IT guy did was worse and graver than what zootreeves did. And he should be held accountable. And the college should be held accountable too for breach of privacy laws.
[edited by: jecasc at 9:15 pm (utc) on Dec. 7, 2005]
Can't get into another college > can only take 2 A levels > No decent university > No degree > Basically no good job prospects...
So, if you're a loser at 50, living on the streets, unemployed and unemployable, depressed, dejected, down and out.... it'll be the IT guy's fault?
Stop being melodramatic and wallowing in self-pity! (Get your A levels elsewhere! Or next year! Or in a different subject! It beats whining that your life is ruined.) Lose the blame mentality and grab responsibility by the balls. Make yourself a man, young man.
A lot of posts here about whether the college acted illegally. The crucial question for me is: did you? If you did then trying to blame everybody but yourself doesn't paint you in a good light. More important than a degree is the attitude you approach life with.
[edited by: oddsod at 9:22 pm (utc) on Dec. 7, 2005]
It's like getting arrested for car theft and then saying you shouldn't be charged because you didn't damage the car.
The law is the law. You broke it. It was your choice.
In the case of car theft, if this was your first arrest and you were properly remourseful they would probably give you a slap on the wrist like probation.
In your case, you really don't seem remourseful and they still only gave you a slap on the wrist. You could be in jail and/or facing a big fine.
Freq---
Play nice and throw yourself on their mercy. Beg them not to ruin your future. If you are sincere, and the (dean? principal? headmaster?) isn't a jerk you should eventually be able to crawl back in. Good luck!
Lose the blame mentality and grab responsibility by the balls. Make yourself a man, young man.
Can I just say that I do know about resposibility. I have run my own business since 16, which I setup myself, which does very well for itself. But if that all goes down the pan then I'm going to be left high and dry with no qualifications.
jecasc your right on the money again. Basically nobody apart from apart from me and the IT guy know what really happened, because they don't really understand. It was just my word against his. I don't know what the It guy told them but it was clear that they did not believe myside.
Stop wallowing in self-pity!
It's like getting arrested for car theft and then saying you shouldn't be charged because you didn't damage the car.
If I left the keys in the ignition of my car with the door open and someone moved it to the next car parking space, I doubt I would press charges.
but
as soon as you logged in using the unchanged user/pass you should have notified the school and that would be that
by willfully changing something (regardless whether saved or not) you then committed a crime. Whether the IT fella is an idiot or not (which he is) is completely irrelevant to your situation. You also changed something of your sister's, imagine if it would have been saved, she could have gotten in a s much or more trouble as you are in now.
yes, what they did was absolutely legal, I'd start begging.
>> I doubt I would press charges
they didn't either which is also well within the law to do
You just might change your mind about that in a few years.
Oh, and BTW they didn't press charges. Didn't we already go over that?
Freq---
Oh, and I do agree that the IT guy should be fired. But it's not something that should make you feel better and certainly doesn't justify what you did.
I'm done talking to myself.
I have run my own business since 16
So what age are you now?
Er, what's the connection with responsibility? So far you've shown acceptance for what you did (good!) but an unwillingness to take responsibility. Having run a website for a couple of years (he's 18, BDW) doesn't bestow upon you an aura of responsibility. It may come as news to you but the perpetrator of a crime isn't the one who gets to choose the sentence.
You wanted to know if your actions were illegal, it's been pointed out that they were. It now looks like you didn't like that answer and are feeling around for other scapegoats. Maybe I'm being harsh but if you do ever get before a judge (or your ex-principal) the attitude that you've been hard done by won't do you any good. Accepting to yourself that you deserve an expulsion may ironically be what gets the expulsion reversed.
you could have used your back door to pull off a funny, preferably harmless, practical joke. Something you and the IT guy could have laughed about over beer while he signed glowing letters of reference. but you went too far and you blew it.
hope you learned your lesson.
I logged in and changed my sisters report
they didn't think that was funny? aww.
Now if you had logged in and changed the default language to Tibetan, that would have been funny.
Altering/corrupting data is not.
pmkpmk said:"Maybe they want to set an example? Like zero-tolerance policy? "
I support theory that school governement has discovered that many have used this sloppy security risk, risk a scandal and therefore will not sue, but send out a stern warning nonetheless.
Zoo... in restrospect you might come to regard this as a lucky twist of destiny, whatabout finishing some project now, are you the type who has a manuscript collecting dust or (could it be) website idea?
I'm sure they'd find a compulsive argument for you, if you truly are repentant.
sorry but it's not true.
>> And the college should be held accountable too for breach of privacy laws.
you already determined that they breached the laws? You are quick
There is a kid in our neighborhood who is has some pretty serious discipline issues. His mom is in total denial about it, but she is otherwise very sharp person who understands the legal system.
So every time the local schools have tried to take some disciplinary action against this kid, the mom just gets really aggressive, complains to the school board, threatens legal action, whatever it takes and the school staff always back down.
I'm not saying I agree with what you did or that your school wasn't within their rights to punish you, or that I think the mom in the above case is truly acting in the long term, best interest of her son.
But if you think your punishment didn't fit the crime, then it may be interesting to talk to an attorney to see what he or she has to say. I've learned from watching this woman in action that school punishments, at least in my neighborhood schools, are far from written in stone.
Now if you had logged in and changed the default language to Tibetan, that would have been funny.
Typo3 has no module for Tibetan. Chinese would have been possible and that's kind of official in Tibet too. And actually installing a new Typo3 language module and adjusting all the templates and extensions is not an easy task! What I read about our "young man" so far doesn't make me believe he could have done this. Changing a content-record within Typo3 is pretty easy though. Once you are logged in, it's slightly more than child's play to do it.
Altering/corrupting data is not.
Something you and the IT guy could have laughed about over beer
If you knew the IT guy then I highly doubt that
Thanks for all your advice. Its been very helpful.
Well I never saved the changes, I just printed it out.
Sorry, this is not possible with Typo3, unless you printed the backend-screen. As soon as you have the data in the frontend, it HAS been saved. There is NO non-saving-preview in the Typo3 versions I know (3.5 - 3.81). Of course cou can preview it in the frontend, print the screen, and then revert it to the previous state. But this leaves many significant (and a few not-so-significant) traces which can more or less easily tracked down.
[edited by: pmkpmk at 8:35 am (utc) on Dec. 8, 2005]
The argument that you have broken the law is irrelevant. You have not been tried and found guilty in a court of law, which is the only case when I would see this argument having any validity. You might just as well say that if you hid the teacher's hat then that counts as theft, and so you have broken the law.
this is not possible with Typo3
It was a word document in the /fileadmin folder. I don't think you even need a password to get to it
"If I left the keys in the ignition of my car with the door open and someone moved it to the next car parking space, I doubt I would press charges."You just might change your mind about that in a few years.
If you did that your insurance would be void anyway and you would get nothing...
I first heard this story on the local news. What I originally heard was that an employee left the laptop in her car and that she was at lunch or something. You can probably google for more info. This is the exact same situation just on a much larger scale.
This is the mentality I am reading from some people in this thread
Boeing is not resposible whatsoever. Sure they had a completely lacking security department. They hired and employed the people who could allow such a scenerio to even take place, but that doesn't make the company responsible.
The person who lost the laptop isn't responsible. Sure they knew what was on the laptop and how important that information was, but hey, people make innocent mistakes. Even if those innocent mistakes means losing bank accounts and social security numbers for 161,000 people.
The thief, well, he should get the death sentence.
Here is what will most likely happen
Boeing could see one of the largest class action suits in all of history possibly putting the company out of business.
The person who lost the laptop will be lucky if they are only fired.
The thief, if caught and depending on age, could face a couple days in jail and even some community service.
His scenerio is no different
First and foremost it's the schools fault, they hire a person who isn't qualified to do a job protecting the security of highly important information that could potentially affect the lives of many.
The IT guy who obviously lied about his qualifications and made such a critical mistake.
Finally, it's your fault, you should get an hour of detention and be on your way.
this is not possible with Typo3
It was a word document in the /fileadmin folder. I don't think you even need a password to get to it.
Anything else you forgot to tell?
My suggestion
They are railroading you, they ****** up and are putting the blame on you. Your 18, take charge and deal with this situation, don't let them dictate the outcome. You will end up regretting it for the rest of your life. You got these ******** over a barrel and they are praying that you conform quickly and quietly. I suggest you bring them back to the table and tell them if they don't drop the whole thing you are going to the media and talking to a lawyer about starting a class-action suit against them. They will **** their drawers and the ball will be in your court.
I'm serious, don't let this ride. Forget all the good will and morality that others are telling you that you need to have. The real world is full of quite the opposite. Just look at your school, putting the blame on a child for their mistakes. You need to stand up for yourself because nobody else is going to do it for you.
And to all those in thread ranting at the guy for what he did and asking "why did you?" ..
The reason is curiosity ..
If you can make a website ..but dont have the curiosity ..you are just a shopkeeper with a keyboard ..minus a clue ..
And zoo' ..next time remember the easy thing is to get in ..the hard thing is to do it undetected ..( there will be a next time ..some time :) ..but you dont show the bull it's own ears while it can still gore you ..
The dumb thing you did was to show proof of exploit to a non techie that made an incompetent IT nerd with influence look stupid ..
Zoo, follow the advice I gave earlier. This thread isn't going to help you - only someone real (not virtual) can do that. Face to face conversations make a difference in situations like this - nothing else will help you.
Kaled.
Both the school and the IT guy have committed far worse crimes yet they walk scott free.
This is just nonsense. They committed no crimes at all and you know it.
The schools my kids have gone to change punishments and bend rules all of the time for the kids and parents that press the issue. I've gotten a number of things changed for my kids that I thought were unreasonable or unfair just by either negotiating, escalating through the proper channels or when all else fails just by literally getting in someone's face.
Don't you have parents?
Ok well I am going to follow some of your advice and not just roll over. kaled thanks for advice on seeing someone from the CAB, i will do that. Aftering finding out the fully story my parents have decided that they are not happy with the expulsion and have written a letter to the school governors.
Anyway thanks again for your advice. Received my first offer from university today, so no matter what happens all is not lost....
