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Also, do you tip when you order food for takeout? Occasionally, I call ahead to order from sit-down type restaurants to take the food home. On the credit card bill is a line for tip. Am I supposed to tip here?
I should have included in the title of the thread that this was for "those who actually tip". Here I was asking if I should tip a couple of laborers and I get advice on whether I should even tip at a restaraunt.
Those who don't tip EVERY time for drinks and restaraunt meals definitely do not live in NYC. If you tip under 15%, there is a good chance you are in for a shouting match or, alternatively, you come back the next time to find a new "seasoning" in your food :)
I'd be pissed too if I made two dollars for an hour of serving someone. Not tipping waiters in the US at least is BS. If you don't want to tip, go to McDonalds.
On a side note. Just a heads up to all those business folks out there. Not tipping is a big no-no in a business setting (or dating for that matter). Many "guides" to how to judge canidates for jobs, permenant or consulting, say that you should watch how the person treat and tips people in a resturant. It's a good indication on how they will treat the people they will be working with.
I have also known more than one woman who was turned off from a guy because he was a lousy tipper. If they will be cheap about a few bucks in a resurant, you can pretty much gauruntee they will be cheap when it comes to their significant other.
If they will be cheap about a few bucks in a resurant
It's not a case of being "cheap". It's a matter of principle. A tip is a gratuity - it is a sign of thanks for doing a job well. If someone does their job well and the diner doesn't tip, then that's cheap.
If someone does their job badly, why be gratuitous? That's not "cheap". That's saying "this is what I think of your service".
...in the US this is BS..... If you don't want to tip go to McDonalds
This still comes back, on matter of principle, to the earlier comment:-
i always tip the server, even if the service isn't great.
the only time i wouldn't tip is if the server intentionally tried to make my dining experience unpleasant
In the UK this is BS. I think the UK has this right, and the US are just plain insane.
That kind of treatment deserves a complaint, and a walk out of the restaurant without paying anything.
If you take a job as a waiter, knowing full-well that the bulk of what you make will come from the tips, then make an effort to earn those tips.
[SoapBox]
An expectancy of gratuity, even when you've done a bad job of something, in my opinion is a really bad thing for society. The World doesn't owe you Jack **** my friend, go earn your place and fill that chip on your shoulder.
[/SoapBox]
See you in McDonalds.
TJ
waitstaff:
15%...20% if great...10% if they suck. Remember, it's not always the waitstaffs fault when food isn't right.
It may not be the waitstaff's fault if the food isn't right, but it IS the waitstaff's fault "if they suck." I have been known to deliberately leave a single penny for a tip in extreme cases, because I thought it would make more of a point than leaving nothing (nothing could be broke, could be forgetful, could be cheap... leaving one penny is obviously a premeditated statement).
OTOH, I've also tipped 30% or more before. Years ago a regular waitress remembered me, always understood when I couldn't afford a tip, but still gave me great service whenever I went in. Recently a sushi chef was about to go home for the day, and walked back into the restaurant from their car when they saw me and a friend come up to the door. At the local bar, it's because the bartenders are friendly as hell. You never need to have someone with you when you go in, you know you'll always have a great conversation waiting for you. The staff will sit and talk when they have a moment, they'll introduce you to other people from the area... tipping is like a membership due for a local social club.
If you are ok:
Dollar miniumn per person $.50 for the kids or 20% of the check.
The last bad one was back around 1995.
Asked the table next to us if they had change for a nickel,
they gave the waiter a dollar and had him bring back a roll
of pennies, but don't think anything bothered him.
GeorgeGG
In that way, there is no need for tipping, nor argument about it.
Perfect. And that way you pay your waitstaff properly (not $2 an hour and make the rest on tips) and if they're rubbish you fire them.
The responsibility should be with the restaurant, not the customer.
TJ
I believe France has it right, their restaurants are legally obliged to include the service charge in the bill. In that way, there is no need for tipping, nor argument about it.
a service charge is a tip, what's the difference. disguise the tip as a service charge and you feel OK about paying it?
in an earlier post someone mentioned leaving a penny. try that around here and you'd better run out of the restaurant.
when i was bartending, i would make about $20 per hour--on weekly average. i guarantee you that very few people could provide the same quality of service. there could be 60 people on the other side of the bar and still someone will look for an excuse not to tip--"bah humbug, the bartender forgot my straw, he gets no tip."
i'd like to throw a non-tipper behind a packed bar and see how well they fare. it is hard work, physically and mentally. i think everyone should spend a year in the service industry, the world would be a better place.
think about the type of service you would get if the server was being paid minimum wage with no tips. the work is too demanding and competent people would stop pursuing service jobs.
i've been a roofer, pool/spa builder, dietary aide, house painter, and a webmaster--none of these jobs are as demanding or depleting, both physically and mentally, as working in a busy resaurant/bar.
i've been a roofer, pool/spa builder, dietary aide, house painter, and a webmaster--none of these jobs are as demanding or depleting, both physically and mentally, as working in a busy resaurant/bar.
Wow, glad to know there's a job out there that's tougher than mine. Just being lead counsel in a murder trial takes the starch out of me.
lawman
It's almost like it's the customer's fault that that the serving staff don't get paid properly and they ought to make up the difference otherwise they're a bad customer.
I'd prefer to see the proprietor fined and have his or her catering licence removed for staff exploitation... but then I suppose I come from a different culture and there's room in the world for more than one system, eh?
Waitstaff
--------
In the U.S., standard is 15% of the pretax amount. An easy way to figure this is, if tax is around 7-8%, then just double the tax. The minimum wage for waitstaff in the U.S. is around $2.50/hr., so they depend on tips to make a decent living. It's not a reward for superior service, it's simple compensation for doing their job. You might think that's silly but that's just the model that's evolved: The customers pay the bulk of the waitstaff's wages. Before you scream that the restaurant should be paying it, not you, consider three things:
1. If the employer had to pay a living wage so you wouldn't have to tip, the prices would have to be higher so the employer could afford the higher wages. You definitely wouldn't be saving any money. So being that you'd be paying the same amount, what do you care that you're giving the money directly to the employee rather than giving it to the employer and having them give it to the employee?
2. Restaurants run on a tiny margin. Most new restaurants fail. If you think that most restaurants are rolling in cash, you're wrong. Some are, but most aren't.
3. Much as you might want it to work that way, it doesn't, and if you don't tip, then you're only hurting someone whose guaranteed income is less than half the minimum wage.
That said, there's no need to tip if service was *truly bad*. Also, I think the 15% rule applies to typically-priced fare. If you're in some fancy place where a meal for two costs $200 I'm not sure the waitstaff deserve a whole $30 for your bill.
Whoa, I was gonna talk about cab drivers and blackjack dealers but my post is already long enough.
[edited by: lawman at 1:51 pm (utc) on June 2, 2004]
what do you care that you're giving the money directly to the employee rather than giving it to the employer and having them give it to the employee?
It's the principal of the matter. As their employer it is their job to organise wages and decide how much to pay (as long as it's at least the minimum wage), not mine.
you're only hurting someone whose guaranteed income is less than half the minimum wage
How can there be a seperate minimum wage for waitresses/waiters? Surely there is something wrong here?
Cab drivers and various other workers get tipped too as we have have discussed here. Is there a *different* minimum wage for them too? I bet there isn't.
what do you care that you're giving the money directly to the employee rather than giving it to the employer and having them give it to the employee?It's the principal of the matter. As their employer it is their job to organise wages and decide how much to pay (as long as it's at least the minimum wage), not mine.
More than that, it's the employers responsibility to both hire and fire and ensure quality control in respect of staff. It's not my business to do that.
Think about the type of service you would get if the server was being paid minimum wage with no tips. The work is too demanding and competent people would stop pursuing service jobs.
I have no problem with that. But if the person is not competent, they're not going to get tipped and (hopefully) will get forced out of the service industry where they have no place.
If you tip the incompetents, you end up with the same problem you outline.
If the employer had to pay a living wage so you wouldn't have to tip, the prices would have to be higher so the employer could afford the higher wages.
Fine by me. Hand the responsibility back to the employer. It's his business and it's his risk. If he employs incompetent staff, or cooks me a bad meal then he can take the wrap.
I'm not there everyday. I can't keep an eye on the staff and I don't know before I've eaten in a restaurant who amongst his staff is incompetent and who is competent.
A service charge is a tip, what's the difference. Disguise the tip as a service charge and you feel OK about paying it?
Actually, there's a huge difference between a restaurant added service charge and a tip. A tip is a gratuity direct to the waitstaff, a service charge is added to the restaurant bill. The waitstaff do not therefore expect a gratuity and that's the difference. Practically, what this means is if you have a complaint, you make it to the restaurant - you don't make an example by leaving the one-penny tip. Better for everyone. From the waitstaff's point of view, they will command a higher basic salary, as they know that they will not make any money from tips.
Removing the expectancy of a direct tip from the customer, removes all of the problems as far as I'm concerned.
That said, there's no need to tip if service was *truly bad*.
Nice to hear that from someone in Vegas(?). You're going against the grain of the entire US flavour input on this this thread, which is, essentially, tip or get beaten up.
TJ
Restaurants run on a tiny margin. Most new restaurants fail.
Ill-thought out business plans should fail. Nobody benefits when a business, haemorrhaging cash, stays operational, least of all the business owner.
That doesn't mean the proprietor should compensate for low margins by expecting customers to top up his staff's income in a quasi-compulsory fashion. That's either greed or incompetence.
What also bothers me about tips - I don't know if this happens in the States, I hope not, but I know it happens in London - is that sometimes the waitstaff have to put the tip in a kitty which doesn't even get shared out equally between all staff - it goes into the proprietor's pocket. My housemate worked in a restaurant where all her tips (and everyone else's) went straight into the manager's pocket. Needless to say, she didn't work there very long.
Which suggests to me again, that waitstaff should be paid a decent wage before tips and that tips should be a bonus, not a necessity.
lawman
During the Orlando Pubcon I think a group of 8 of us left one lucky girl about $6 or $8 each pretty close to 25% at any rate.
If I can give some advice - make you waiter's night and throw and extra dollar or two on your tip amount.
As far as workmen and what not, I habitually tip anyone that does anything "above and beyond", does an especially good job, or noticing and fixing something not on the agenda.
It may be a couple of dollars, or a beer, or something to eat - but I always try to reward good service.
The way it is now, you pay for the food and you decide how much the service is worth. So if you get terrible service, you can tip little or nothing. If you get a server who is friendly, communicates well, recommends great food, etc. then you tip that person well.
I think it's a great system.
The way it is now, you pay for the food and you decide how much the service is worth. So if you get terrible service, you can tip little or nothing. If you get a server who is friendly, communicates well, recommends great food, etc. then you tip that person well.
That's exactly what I do. And that's the perfect (and right IMO) system.
But a few people are saying in this thread, that if you do that in the US, you won't ever get served in that establishment again (or worse!).
TJ
How can there be a seperate minimum wage for waitresses/waiters? Surely there is something wrong here?
"The minimum wage in Massachusetts is currently $6.75 an hour for most employees. For service employees, like waitstaff, who receive tips of more than $20.00 per month as part of their compensation, the minimum wage is $2.63 an hour."
source: [masslegalhelp.org...]
The prices of your meals would increase to pay the staff. So you'd be paying for the food and the service - with no choice in the mattter.
I'm obviously speaking from a UK standpoint here and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's room in the world for more than one system... of course tipping culture isn't the same from country to country. <snip>
But I think the prices of your meals should increase to pay the staff. My choice in the matter is whether I go back to the restaurant a second time.
When I'm standing outside the restaurant, looking at prices on a menu, with my girlfriend, I want to know that even if I have no spare change left in my wallet after I've covered both meals and drinks, having paid the price listed on the menu that the waiter or waitress is still going to go home with a fair wage.
It would strike me as odd if the price of a book in a bookshop did not include a small amount which goes towards paying the shop assistant who checks the book through the till. Same goes for meals.
I, also, don't understand why the minimum wage should be less for service employees. Is it a calculated measure to encourage restaurant start-ups and reduce unemployment levels?
[edited by: lawman at 6:22 pm (utc) on June 1, 2004]
[edit reason] See Foo Charter [/edit]
When I'm standing outside the restaurant, looking at prices on a menu
You get to see prices before you ever go in? What an innovative idea! Never have seen that myself here in the U.S., except for McDonald's drive-through . . .
[edited by: lawman at 6:20 pm (utc) on June 1, 2004]
You get to see prices before you ever go in? What an innovative idea!
Yes, 99% of the time in the UK the menu is printed outside the restaurant with prices.
[edited by: lawman at 6:20 pm (utc) on June 1, 2004]
Never have seen that myself here in the U.S.
Don't know about where you live, but in the more urban areas around here (Cleveland, OH USA) the resturants frequently post the menu. It's a way to lure people in when it would be just as easy for them to walk to the next place two doors down.
So do Europeans tip extra beyond the service charge already on the bill? Or is it just expected of travelers?
So do Europeans tip extra beyond the service charge already on the bill?
Only tip in the UK if the service warrants it.
TJ
