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Hmmm….. you sly git

         

ukgimp

10:22 am on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I got commissioned in a round about way to write a small article about an issue I feel strongly about for a well respected industry related monthly. Full of praise was the editor, then heard nothing. I enquired if they required any more and the line has gone dead so to speak. Imagine my surprise to see a much more focused article appear with stuff that seems vaguely reminds me of a something.

What can you do to prevent such stuff occurring again?

Nick_W

10:23 am on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Whip him senseless with a knotted rope?

Nick

edit_g

10:29 am on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Post articles you write to yourself in a sealed envelope and don't break the seal (untill your day in court). This is a simple way of ensuring that nobody steals your work.

netcommr

10:36 am on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Tell your story to all their competition and see if they would publish it. You may get lucky and find one who would just luv a chance at a little competitor bashing.

netcommr

10:38 am on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



edit_g, that's a good idea, but a legal binding thing would be to just print it and find a notary.

richardb

10:39 am on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Whip him senseless with a knotted rope?

LOL

I can see PubCon gonna be fun ;0

edit_g

11:33 am on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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but a legal binding thing would be to just print it and find a notary.

This is true. I'm just lazy. :)

Fiver

1:59 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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post your article, have it rank well, include a link at the bottom to the sly git's article .. imply dryly your contribution, and apparent lack of credit. Tastefully of course, which would hopefully make any conscious person shudder a little, should they understand they deserve it.

could prove embarrassing enough... if anyone ever sees it.

of course.. my solution doesn't get you the money you deserve.

Jenstar

2:06 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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The mailing it to yourself thing won't stand up in court - I am not sure about the notary thing either, I can't recall a case where a notarized printout was used successfully (or unsuccessfully) in court.

But it is only $30 to register an article, website etc with the US copyright office, and the UK must have something similar. Worth the $30 expense if you are concerned, and probably cheaper than going the notary route. You can get all the information online if you ever want to register one.

That said content that is "vaguely" similar is a lot harder to prove in court.

There have also been discussions on this subject in the content and copyright forum as well.

edit_g

2:20 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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The mailing it to yourself thing won't stand up in court

Off I shuffle with a pile of envelopes... ;)

Lilliabeth

2:33 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Why won't the mailing thing stand up in court?
Where's lawman?

Rossie

2:44 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As far as I can make out, it's hardly difficult to mail yourself an empty envelope then slip the article in afterwards (such as on your way to court), or to open and reseal an envelope even if there was something in it in the first place.

The laws may be different in the US of course, but I'd be amazed if the "poor man's copyright" procedure could be made to stand up in a British court.

BlobFisk

2:49 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Regarding the mailing to yourself thing, I've heard tell that it needs to be a registered letter - which I think are sealed at the post-office.

Jenstar

3:05 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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From my big thick legal copyright book, it mentions that people do do this (they say it should be by certified letter) but "this method is not foolproof because a judge or jury might not believe that your did not tamper with the envelope (this actually happened in one case)."

It also says "You must register your copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office before you are legally permitted to bring a lawsuit to enforce it." So you could send a C&D to an infringer, but to bring about a lawsuit in the US, it must be registered to do so.

And just so I am not confusing anyone, your work is copyrighted as soon as you write it, but it is when you need to enforce it that it becomes trickier if it is not registered. For online infringement, archive.org is a valuable resource to prove your work was published online by a certain date.

Mark_A

3:14 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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hi ukgimp .. while revenge may seem tempting I would treat this as notice to be vigilant and try not to get caught out the same way again. Its not like people died or you lost a lot of money but I agree its annoying that sort of thing.

Did this guy actually verbally commit to publishing something or did he just really smooth talk you with sugary compliments into helping him out? if the second then its called charm and sorry you lost mate:-) if the first then "the word" it turns out may not where some people are concerned be their bond after all.

Well politicians & the media .. I only have to mention Hatten .... trust? both these types of folks dont have great repute here.

I was going through painful negotiations some time ago and took any confidential calls on my carphone (for the ostensible reason to be out of earshot of the offices) the real reason was that next to the carphone speaker my tape recorder could take down the evidence just in case we were in the end stitched up :-)

Just a note to say "dont be too trusting" there are wonkers out there in all suits and sizes.

nutsandbolts

3:18 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Did you get paid? If not, just issue a bill to the magazine for payment.

It's quite common for submissions to be re-written or used as a source for another article as long as you GET PAID. Sure, always lovely to get the by-line but that's life.

Wouldn't make too much of a fuss over it if you (a) did get paid (b) you are willing to do more work for the magazine 'cos you did get paid (c) depending on the publication, word could get out your nothing but trouble when it comes to submissions.

ukgimp

3:21 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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>>while revenge may seem tempting

none planned, not for something minor

>>dont be too trusting

more cynical by the day :)

>>Did you get paid

No, it was just for the hell of it really.

Mark_A

3:21 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Jenstar I think ukgimp's name is a clue that he is not an american but a Brit ...

as such UK copyright law is sufficient to protect him from a UK transgressor and here he does not have to register his work anywhere for our copyright legislation to have effect.

He does have to be able to present reasonable evidence that he did produce the work at the time he said he did which is where the letter posted back has some value but equally publishing it on the web would be also of some value as will the creation date of the files and record of the emails sent about the article and text contained.

However it is apparently an article .. and he hints that what was written appeared to be * derived from * his work not a direct copy. It becomes much harder then .. as its not a direct copy and direct copyright issue ... he was certainly misled if what he says is true ..

There are an awful lot of websites out where significant elements have been derived from the original or otherwise work of others .. when is something original and when is it a derivation of generic or general public knowledge?

victor

3:56 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Send them an invoice for the work carried out.

If they don't pay, make a claim in a small claims court.

Or, better still, issue a winding-up order (or your nation's equivalent) against them. The really does get a company's attention -- and it's dirt cheap to do, at least where I am.

Mark_A

4:09 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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victor dont you think a wind up order might be just a little bit of an overreaction :-)

I mean there are rather a lot of worse things that the mag could have done to him! which almost never result in these things .....

Perhaps you are a lawyer looking to up you work rate :-) then it might make sense :-)

edit_g

4:12 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



wind up order

So, do you go around to their office and wind them up? :)

No, seriously, what is a wind up order?

Mark_A

4:22 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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iirc a wind up order (may be a winding up order I expect lawman to be along in a mo to correct things :-) is a court order to stop a company operating because evidence is available that it is trading illegally in that it cannot meet its obligations ... cant pay its bills .. or on other words is insolvent.

Its not therefore the same as a chapter 11 in the US which afaikt where the company itself tries to prevent people it owes money to from making a winding up order to close them down because the management of the company feels the situation is retrievable.

Google it if you really want to know.

victor

4:40 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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In my experience it takes about 24 hours for an unpaid bill to be settled after a company gets a winding-up order.

They are fast effective, and cheap.

HitProf

5:33 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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ukgimp,

rewriting is normal but you could ask them to mention your name in a rectification

Mark_A

6:00 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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victor its interesting the line you take on that .. that would be good for a couple of slow paying clients I have had in the past

but I wonder ...

Sometimes I have worked with a few clients that are slow paying but regular rebuying customers .... ie lifetime value is high ... payment promptness is not .. but payment does come ...

How many rebuys do you get from people you did the wind up to :-)

I would guess if it was always going to be a transaction rather than the start or part way into a longer term relationship then its a fine way to go ...

And we should always be picking customers who do pay their bills :-) thats certainly true ...

victor

6:07 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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How many rebuys do you get from people you did the wind up to :-)

Absolutely none whatsoever. It's a neat way to end an abusive relationship :)

Mark_A

6:15 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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agree .. hope I find a chance to use it too :-)

no .. perhaps better if I dont actually cause it means I will have started an abusive relationshiop .... but you know what I mean :-)

lawman

7:00 pm on Aug 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Sorry guys, you're on your own. I limit my practice to criminal defense. Laws vary from state to state and country to country. Be careful about giving legal advice. Otherwise have fun. :)

Your Friendly Neighborhood Lawman

ukgimp

11:39 am on Aug 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>Your Friendly Neighborhood Lawman

class :)