Forum Moderators: martinibuster
It involves TWO websites (2 different domain names). One of them is an auto generated website made with several of the available "made for Adsense" page makers (this website should be 1000+ pages).
The other is a website of about 10 webpages, each page with original articles of about 200 words each. You could put some Adsense blocks on the pages with your original content for some extra cash.
Then put in a link on EACH page of your original website to the index page of your auto-generated website. Pay more attention to your original 10 page website concentrating on getting a higher page rank for that site (links, maybe even more original article page, etc). With higher page rank, spiders will crawl it well and follow it right to your auto-generated 1000+ page Adsense website.
Does this sound like a good method? It's worked pretty well for me. I figure I'm doing work, getting visitors to Google advertisers websites so it's a win/win situation...beats writing 1000+ pages of original content, I just have to write 10 pages of original content. I'm in this Adsense game to make money and since this an Adsense forum, I assume readers of this post are in the game to make money, too.
Certainly telling a man exactly how much you earn and then showing him how you do it could be problematic, eh?
If it was meant for me it is hilarious. I'm a strong advocate of content and pay a lot of money to buy content sites and to buy content for my sites. And, as I stated, I don't like scrapers any more than you do. But, contrary to the opinion some share, I don't believe scrapers in SERPs is a webmaster problem. There'll always be people looking to exploit a loophole. Given a choice of changing human nature or the SEs getting to grips with doing a proper job of eliminating scrapers in SERPs I have no doubt as to where the solution lies.
Google and the erst of the scraper sites can rest their laurels on the "Fair Use" doctrine.
Fair Use does not protect sites that are created to generate revenue using other business' trademarks and material.
Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
Further...
Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.
Generally, when dealing with copyright law, the only time when permission does not need to be obtained for use of copyrighted information is when the information is used for PRIMARILY non-commercial purposes.
The more we do this, the better Google's algo gets at fighting such sites. So your reporting might not only affect that single site, but may also have an effect on eliminating other similar sites as Google's algo 'learns' from the examples we give it.
I'm venting my anger on scrapers these days by doing this on every one of them that comes my way. Even if it had no other effect, being an outlet for my enger is in itself enough. It least I feel I'm doing something about it, and giving this digital algo of Google a human 'touch' to help it get better and better with time and our help.
Just a theory. How about it, OP? Are you really the clever fox I imagine you might be?
It involves TWO websites (2 different domain names). One of them is an auto generated website made with several of the available "made for Adsense" page makers (this website should be 1000+ pages).
Auto-generated? As in it scrapes or steals content from people like me?
Whenever I see a site in my nich like this I report them to Google. Especially when the webmasters are dumb enough to spam my quality site and ask for links.
Great theory! I've been wondering about why we keep seeing these vaguely similar posts.
I was beginning to wonder if perhaps it was one of the WW regulars having a bit of fun (using a pseudonynm) but your theory seems like an even more logical explanation.
It's because they are producing a directory, a searchable index. That has "value" to the public. Using a snippet of the website that matches a search is part of the description of the site. Even the url and website name is part of that description. Should Google's SERPS be "Try these sites: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10"?
Same with any scraper. It's a page with a collection of links and a descriptive excerpt of the page and links to similar pages, based on a perhaps proprietary collection system and combination of keywords. This allows the visitor to compare and contrast the pages' descriptions and decide quickly and efficiently which site to actually visit. This constitues fair use, and that would be their (winning) legal argument, and it would be the exact same argument for Google, Yahoo, Ask, Gigblast or any scraper site.
Why do you think that 99 44/100% of them retain links to the original sites? If they didn't have to, they wouldn't. It is their raison d'etre, under the law.
If the sites were ILLEGAL, Google would be TOSsing them (and all the DMOZ sites, and any other search site, and oh yeah, their own site) from AdSense.
Tell ya what... you be the first to win a lawsuit on these grounds, against a scraper site that uses a snippet and provides link, and I'll buy you a steak and lobster dinner. I'd guess that half the posters in here would send ya $20 each too! I might even send you the $20 just to watch the docket and see if this is summarily dismissed before trial. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. But do all of us a favor and hire a lawyer and get an opinion, or go to law school and take copyright 101 first. Then come back and reply to this thread.
I could be wrong. It's happened before. Maybe it's even been posted about on this website! Surely if someone here knoew someone who prevailed in such a case we'd read about it! Maybe I'm looking in the wrong forum.
Google is an 83.90 Billion dollar company, as of today, according to Yahoo.
I have to say that quality pays.
My site appears in the top 3 on most search engines on relevant searches for 1 reason - quality. It's been there 5 years, and I've been an adsense publisher for nearly 2 years AND I've seen my income grow surprisingly well. I'd suggest that maintaining my site is far easier that changing the sites I run every few days.
The other point I'd like to make is that quality sites draw quality advertisers. I've been dabbling as an adwords advertiser recently, so I know what my keywords pay. I'm currently bidding high, but haven't yet been charged anywhere near the maximum bid. The odd thing is that what I'm getting per click is considerably higher than I'm paying for the keywords. Either smartpricing knows my clicks convert and charges advertisers accordingly, or one of my regular advertisers is doing some targetted campaigns. Maybe a bit of both.
So having a made for adsense website isn't going to draw in quality advertisers willing to pay. There will always be minimum bid advertisers in the system that will give a couple of cents per click if that's what you are after. Also, there is a huge risk of getting kicked when adsense changes their policy as they do on a regular basis.
He posted the very same message (with minor variations) yesterday on another SE forum. In that one, I believe he mentioned an e-book.
Smells a bit, don't you think?
poster:
All this since launching beginning of June?
July 10- 1 (one) website about 5000 pages, optimized site, etc. Making 100.00/day on 300 visits. REALLY? Fell to 3 visits a day and no money.
July 28-Made 1600.00+ for June and July, income rising.
Aug 1-2000.00/month since June
Aug 1-10 sites, thousands of pages. since beginning of June total 2000.00
Aug 1- another post: 2000.00 for june and july
Aug 12- bunch of sites making 100.00/day
Aug 22- 50 sites, 5000 pages each. Averaging about 1500.00/month with each site making 500.00/each for June, July and August.
Me thinks something smells bad in here!
Ann
since more and more people begin to realize that there is actually money to be made on the web with this great adsense tool but most of them have no idea how to do it clean, the number of suckers and freeloaders is growing MASSIVELY for some time past.
this forum will of course be one of the most important playgrounds to market their crap. i see an increasing number of posts that stink.
be prepared in how to react to those guys. fight spam!
Where does it stop with link schemes and auto-generated garbage of made for AdSense pages just to stick ads on?
This is just a bit too much to deal with on a full stomach if I intend to keep this laptop computer.
R
There once was a site that was crappy
Its content was stolen and scrappy
But adsense paid well
Till G banned it to hell
Then the webmaster wasn't so happy
Some month ago, I made a search at Google and the first 30 search engine results had been from the same scrap.
30 different artificial sensless domain names.
I reported it to Google and checked some days later.
30 with one stroke.
Comparing affiliate sites that convert - meaning you only get paid when someone BUYS something - vs. people gaming CPC are two totally different things.
That is not fair. These people are not breaking any law.
If you are that worried about competition then go back to flipping burgers!
That is not fair.
Oh, you mean that particular behavior is not endorsed by your sense of ethics?
These people are not breaking any law.
In that case, would they have anything to fear?
Man sitting next to girl in train offers her £5 to er, do him some favours. She gets very insulted, slaps his face, and says that she's not that type of girl. He apologies profusely, she forgives him, and they start chatting. She explains how she's an aspiring glamour model, he explains how he made his millions on the stock exchange. Then he says how he really, really likes her and if he bought her her own glamour model agency would she go with him on a romantic holiday to his gorgeous chateau in the mountains. She ums and ahs but accepts the deal. He then asks for a quickie for £5 and gets another slap. "What kind of girl do you think I am?". "We've already established that, we're now just haggling over the price".
Where's the line between the H1 or "keyword in title" SEO you do ... and what the OP does?
The person who puts the keyword in his H1 tag is hoping to enhance his page's value. The latter is creating a useless page for the sole purpose attempting to game Google and fool a user into clicking on an ad, so he can garner revenue.
Ogletree, I did attend a PubCon and met webmasters. What was your point again? That even though the violate webmaster guidelines, they have nice houses. LOL, that's deep.
The person who puts the keyword in his H1 tag is hoping to enhance his page's value
Sure. There never is any intention to influence SERPs and get a lower value page more traffic than it would attract on its own merit.
Everyone is a tart when it comes to autogen pages ... they just happen to have different prices.
The line, as you put it, must surely appear when it comes to the purpose of the website as a whole. When a visitor (the logical focus of this or any kind of site effort when it comes to adsense) arrives at a site, and it offers only nonsense auto generated rubbish, it could be said that that site has crossed the line. As an advertiser I would not want my advert being clicked on by someone who did so not out of interest or enthusiasm, but likely out of an effort to escape a nonsense website. I would want a much higher chance that they click because they were enthuses, interested or otherwise motivated by something they read or viewed, and my advert was their next step. You can't always get it to happen this way but autogenerated sites make the chances much worse.
What are the most obvious and telling signs of an auto-generated scraper site,
much like the 1000 page junker VK mentioned at the beginning?
I think I am dealing with one of those now. -Larry
Sure. There never is any intention to influence SERPs and get a lower value page more traffic than it would attract on its own merit.
Please, that's like saying lettering the front door at your office is the same as making 10000 flyers and just dropping them off the top of a downtown skyscraper.
There are huge difference between automatically generated sites that offer some sort of value and the ones made by the OP; distinctly two things.
1) They do not provide enough value for Google to keep them in the SERPs for more than a few days. If GBot is finding and banning them, how legit can they be?
2) They are created for Adsense. In this case you have a guy that uses a program to create a few new websites a day, each consisting of a few thousand pages.
People seem to be losing sight of the fact that a site that uses unauthorized content explicitly for for the purpose of generating revenue is not only wrong, it is against the terms of service of AS, and it is most certaintly against the letter of the law.
Let's look at it from a visitor's point of view:
If you are searching for widget information-- say you're doing a report-- how do you feel if the top 10 pages consist of garbled scraped spam sites?
Even if you can't tell the difference between quality sites and scrapers, visitors can.
Are people going to want to visit your site for quality information and keep coming back? Will people write to you and ask to use your info in their school reports, magazine articles, etc.? I've had that happen with my site. I doubt a scraper would.
Are people going to want to visit your site for quality information and keep coming back? Will people write to you and ask to use your info in their school reports, magazine articles, etc.? I've had that happen with my site. I doubt a scraper would.
This has happened to me on several occasions - it's a really great compliment. Last time I was asked to assist someone, "We" got an A grade! I usually ask people to read the site and then ask questions rather than doing the work for them though.
