Forum Moderators: martinibuster
There's a remedy for malpractice: Money damages and the loss of a professional license in extreme cases.
What is the remedy for people who suffer harm because they relied on other webmasters, instead of the AdSense team, to interpret the AdSense TOS?
There is no remedy, no "fixing it". No accountability. That leaves this: "Well, you knew you couldn't actually count on our advice. You should have asked Google."
So when, if ever, should we interpret the AdSense TOS - the "legal documents" of AdSense for another member? Should we engage in this practice at all? What's a rational limit?
Here's my analysis.
Violations of the AdSense TOS and related documents is potentially fatal. Interpreting the AdSense rules is a lot like exercising judgment in the practice of medicine: Not everyone should do it because, in the wrong hands, bad judgment can kill people.
We know this about doctors: They are licensed by the State. We know this means that they had to successfully complete many years of school, pass tests and keep abreast of changes. Even with all the oversight charlatans - pretenders - still infiltrate the practice from time to time. When caught, the usually go to jail.
What do we know about "us webmasters", who post anonymously in most cases, who "practice medicine for webmasters" when they answer questions about the AdSense TOS? Unfortunately, the answer is often "not much, really".
Who has the proper credentials for offering guidance about the AdSense TOS?
I've met members who, by their own admission, are constantly testing the limits. I won't tell you who they are or what they do. Do you know who these members are? Do you know if the person giving advice routinely pushes the envelope?
Does Jenstar have the proper credentials? No doubt more than any other member. With those credentials does Jenstar routinely weigh in on issues of interpreting the AdSense TOS? No. She may list recent changes, but I have not witnessed her making a habit of interpreting the TOS when questions are raised. With all her expertise I would neither expect her to do that nor ask her to do that.
Why?
Because, I suspect, she - as well as anyone assigned to mod this forum - appreciates the fact that such practices would make it appear that the mod is acting somewhat like Google's spokeswoman on the issue of AdSense TOS interpretation. Not a good idea, right? I'm reasonably certain that she abstains for other good reasons, too, such as a concern that no one should suffer harm by relying on her guidance when there's a better method for resolving such issues: Ask the AdSense team.
It's misguided to rely on us - WW -versus them - the AdSense team - because 1) there's an actual process in place for getting approval from Google that would certainly inoculate you IF you follow the AdSense team's advice; 2) approval by one's peers is no defense whatsoever to the dreaded "improper clicks" letter; 3) there are people at WW who are obviously willing to push the envelope, as evidenced by the recent slew of "I got the termination email" threads.
Do you know, if you adopt the advice given here, if you are following the advice of a conservative WW member or a risk taking WW member? Do you understand that there's reasons why many members don't post their website address?
You don't even know if the person responding is a competitor.
I don't see it as unfriendly at all to be blunt on the score of answering questions that could potentially lead to someone's account being terminated. Indeed, I think it's unfriendly to offer assurances to someone who has reason to doubt.
I think the only good advice is 1) Read the Google AdSense TOS and other guidelines; and, 2) If you're still not certain then ask the AdSense team.
So, in the interest of ending a habit that I think is wrongheaded I'm going to be the voice that says what I think needs to be said the way I think it needs to be said: When in doubt about whether specific conduct now - or in the near future - may be deemed to violate the AdSense TOS ask AdSense, not us.
Expressed differently: If "we" can't refer you to specific language in the AdSense TOS and supporting documents then we ought to do you the service of advising you like this: "We don't know, but we infer it's okay, but don't rely on us. Ask Google."
Do I think that every question about the TOS should make us run for cover? No, especially where you can point to the exact language of the TOS that covers the issue.
Do I think everyone who has a question should first be asked "Have you read and re-read the AdSense TOS before coming here?" If you don't think that that is a good idea then you, IMHO, are not doing the person a favor. I think that many people fall victim because they have not done that. This invokes the old saw about "teaching someone to fish versus handing them a fist". Frankly, I think Google ought to require AdSense applicants to first pass an online test before activating new member accounts. That could possibly cut down on new, active member questions by 10 - 20%+
One man's opinion.
The floor is open for debate. Stick to the analysis and leave personas at the door. ;0)
[edited by: Webwork at 3:20 pm (utc) on Mar. 25, 2005]
Are you saying that Google doesn't judge you by the rules, as stated, and even then - when they do - the rules don't apply as written until you've run a few miles? The rules, as stated, don't apply from day one?
Considering you don't have AdSense on your site, by your own admission, the rules don't apply to you at all as you haven't reached 'Day One' yet.
Tell me: What is the “special knowledge” of the T&C, FAQ, Program Policies and Webmaster Guidelines that is inaccessible by reading – hidden - only to be gained by experience?
Well, for one thing, the fact that AdSense publishers don't get feedback from AdWords advertisers. It could possibly be deduced from a readthrough of the kinds of stats we get, but most people--including you--won't get it until you see how the program works from the inside.
Tell me this: Exactly how does your “special knowledge” vitiate any of the arguments or proposals I set forth in this thread?
In this particular thread, it doesn't. Stated less stridently, this thread might have sparked a useful debate. However, over the past couple of weeks you've been arrogant and hectoring, and you tried to lay down the law twice. That built up enough ill-will that now that we discover you're just a busybody, your credibility is nil.
You had the right idea in the "chill out" thread you started elsewhere. Step back, calm down, get some perspective; let the current kerfuffle die down, and work up some goodwill before trying to stir things up again. Even better, learn how to introduce new ideas without stirring people up. Debates go better when one side doesn't immediately have to defend themselves.
