Forum Moderators: martinibuster
As an AdSense publisher I am angry that Google was in a position to settle, and would like to hear suggestions from forum members on what they think Google can do to combat click fraud more effectively on our sites as well as their search pages, they have great minds at work and it is their responsibility, but it can also be our loss if this network is affected.
There have been previous posts touching on the topic of recommendations, but lets have one comprehensive list of suggestions of what we / Google can do.
as google do not stipulate what they actually do to try to prevent click fraud, there isn't much we can do about it apart from hope they improve things and develop further fraud prevention technology.
IMHO adsense is not a stable income, and never will be. i think it will fissle out eventually.
I think the most that you can do is maintain (keep) your logfiles so they're available if/when required.
TJ
If the Adsense servers see suspicious activity, with automation, they immediately inform the webmaster with email (hopefully only one). This would be an optional account setting; Fraud prevention net.
Since we are all sitting around posting here at WW anyway, when we get this email, each and every webmaster could take steps to observe and perhaps even act upon suspicious activity. Google could provide the publishers with tools to help localize the source.
Of course the first thing we would have to do is verify the email is from Google Adsense! That should be easy.
Anyway there's much more that could be done.
maintain (keep) your logfiles
For how long? Those Gigs don't come free you know
I have on my notebook 95 GB log files since April 1997
Compressed with ZIP, they use only 6.5 GB disk space.
With Zip Magic, it's possible to work with the compressed zip files like they are uncompressed.
open ( FILE, "logs/200602.zip/example.com.referrer" );
works.
Those Gigs don't come free you know.
Dirt cheap though.
CD-r's can be picked up for about 40p each. A 60gig IDE spare drive can be had for about £40. Or you can use DVD-r which are now also pretty cheap.
As mentioned above, compression works wonders on text files. Compress on the remote server, then download the ZIP. A daily CRON job doing that makes life quite easy.
I have all my logs going back to year dot.
TJ
Added: Compress them first! Why didn't I understand that?
If you run a weekly or even daily log "compress and dump" job, you never end up with anything too big.
You probably don't need to keep them more than a few months anyway - so I guess you could have a file rotation and store them locally, compressed?
Shouldn't use up too much disk space.
TJ
but dowloading 1 Gega files
A good proivder offers compressed download of the log files.
Typicall log files are 1:15 compressable by ZIP
So I have only to download 154 MB logs on 1st March.
If the Adsense servers see suspicious activity, with automation, they immediately inform the webmaster with email (hopefully only one).
Sure, and if the publisher were the perpetrator of click fraud, he'd instantly know he'd gone too far and could either back off a bit or try another technique.
IMHO, it makes a lot more sense for Google to let crooked publishers rack up what they think are big earnings, then shut down their accounts and cancel their payments. That sends a much stronger message than "Nope, that didn't work, so try something else or don't be quite so greedy next time."
That's what all the insurance companies do when they identify a high risk area, and immediately move to mitigate future losses. For instance, Allstate has discontinued accepting new homeowners policies here in Houston (luckily I made it under the wire) do to the perceived risks from Huricanes... And forget about trying to get a new homeowners policy in New Orleans... many of the folks there can't even collect on their exsisting policies!
As the previously poster was correct in stating... we have no real knowledge of Google's clich fraud technology, other than the fact that they have it implemented.
However, I think it is safe to assume that there is some sort of "numbers of clicks per user IP per some time frame" limitation involved. I say, make THAT variable hyper-sensitive by lowering it to extreme levels...
That way as soon as the user clicks on, for example, the 3rd AdSEnse/AdWords ad within an hours time span... WHAM... ANY additional clicks are discounted to $0.0 for advertiser & publisher... Until say for example, 24 hours elapses... and that particular user's clicks would be creditable again.
The perpetrators can't inflict TOO MUCH financial damage to the advertising network if they are limited to only 2 clicks per hour... They could be more productive and make more money at Mickey D's... and flipping burgers while interacting with people wouldn't be as boring! But we are talking about LAZY, greedy crooks arn't we... so I guess they wouldn't want a REAL job that they were qualified to perform.
Soooo, every user would remain billable as long as they only click 2 or less AdSense/Adwords ads per hour...
That should effectively LIMIT EXPOSURE to click fraud... Then Google could take more proactive measures to root-out & prosecute the theives when caught... providing a deterent for click fraud.
These precautions could be set in place NOW... and other, more elaborate measures could be instituted as they are developed...
(just my 2 cents)
a) they have sites with CLICK THE ADS in their own index and don't deal with it
b) don't just ban accounts that do this, they let them take it off the site as we know bad intentions don't stop that easily, they send it in an email instead, the deed will get done
c) they don't hand check new sites and just let anyone add sites after getting the account
d) they don't give the publisher the ability to see who's clicking on the ads so we can block abuse at the start, their stance it's a privacy issue is BS because we can get the same information and already know who's on out site by IP, it's idiotic
e) they allow scrapers and other vermin to exist that like to set up click rings
Not to mention they let people into AdSense that just don't "get it":
[webmasterworld.com...]
Google should institute an "entrance exam" that would intensively quiz the person about information provided online in the AdSense Policies & TOS area... to determine if the applicant has read & comprehends these rules of engagement to a reasonable extent...
I think THAT would help to eliminate some of the totally clueless people... at least the one's that didn't even READ the material...
Then Google might want to "tutor" the applicants that are having some difficulty with understanding some critical aspects of the CONTRACT'S OBLIGATIONS... if it is deemed worthy to devote labor to such a time-consuming task... To minimize labor costs, perhaps have a PowerPoint Presentation with quizzes that must be passed to proceed to the next section, until the applicant passes... or gives up trying?
But I don't know how Google can read people's minds to gauge if they harbor criminal intent... perhaps require a background check to be provided at the applicants expense? That ought to UP the entrance standards and caliber of people admitted into the program (IMHO)
"Then Google could take more proactive measures to root-out & prosecute the theives when caught... providing a deterent for click fraud."
"HANG THEM BY THEIR TUMBS & LEAVE THEM UP TO ROT IN THE SUN UNTIL THE BUZZARDS EAT THE MEAT OFF THEIR BONES & THE WIND WHISTLES TROUGH THEIR RIBS!" quote adapted from, Jack Lambert - Pittsburgh Steeler's All Pro & NFL Hall of Fame Middle Linebacker
In the thread above and in links in posts in the same thread there are strong indications of what one might call "click harrassment" for Adsense ads and therefore publishers. Sure, I'm certain some of the fraud is self serving publishers. But frankly that seems to be fairly easy to detect. What is probably more difficult is "third party" fraud.
Certainly I could see how many might not like Google's Adsense ads strewn all over the Internet by junk sites, scraper sites, etc. Seeing it as destroying the Internet. Many students, being very "proactive", may certainly commit basically unknowing click fraud, thinking it relatively harmless. What the heck, when I was in school I was just learning about earning a living working my way through the educational system; frankly advertising stinks! From a youthful perspective no one deserves to make a living Advertising! Everything should be FREE! The only good ads are Super Bowl ads, and anymore they're bad too.
So the question was "Can publishers help Google?" It's a brainstorming question, and a good one.
And certainly the answer is YES, but only if Google lets them; but some also say the answer is NO, unfortunate.
Detecting third party click fraud will be the hard part. People terrorizing the system because they don't like it, or they want to get "even".
Google does seem to be doing fairly well at detecting self serving publisher click fraud, but that also appears to be a relatively minor problem. Scrapers are not commiting fraud, but they sure are worthless, and, that waste may induce a vengeful retaliation against Adsense. Perhaps it's even occuring now! One reason there may be more clicks withheld, and click dumps. Watching for transients (not trends) is one way to detect occurances of fraud.
Ignoring large instantaneous transients and only watching trends shows only a concern for income and not quality.
Quality is the key to true success. A success that isn't solely financial. (But man I wish I had even more clicks!)
I have no idea why they aren't being shut down by companies like G through lawsuits.
Heh, that'd create a nice little cottage industry. For $10, I'll pass your AdSense entrance exam for you. :)
I have no idea why [companies like Click Mogul] aren't being shut down by companies like G through lawsuits.
Maybe it's more useful to them as it is, e.g.
- luring greedy webmasters to their doom
- observing the click/traffic patterns of fraudsters acting in concert
Imagine if you will, some really nasty types out there decides to destablize the internet economy not by bombing the world bank but thru CLICK attacks on ads worldwide and drain the advertisers budgets and cause all sorts of havoc in as little as 48 hours.
For all we know such nasty plans are already in place, the latest viruses could be carrying clickbots to unsuspecting computers around the world putting the network in place to hammer the internet economy.
Not a direct attack on a government per se but a direct attack on the entire ecommerce system that would hit online merchants and media companies hard worldwide.
Sound outrageous?
I used to think so but today the state of technology and delivery systems make such a plan trivial to deploy.
Just my paranoid $0.02.
NOW you are beginning to see my "paranoid vision" too IncrediBill... This is very close to the concept that I was trying to convey on one of my very first posts on WW... perhaps it was my first, can't quite remember.
I don't believe anybody responded to that particular thread I attempted to start... but I was labeled as a "conspiracy theorist" on several subsequent threads when I made similar references...
But guess what, IncrediBill... this notion isn't as far fetched as some might think. And I believe some terrorists could possibly be using Google earnings to fund their terrorist activities... and yes indeed, perhaps some are monitoring this web site... perhaps even participating as a member of WW.
The terrorists are known to be very Internet savvy. It's not too much of a stretch of one's imagination to think that some terrorist are plotting to click-fraud the corporate world to its knees...
Heck... why do you think there is so much attention being paid to other security matters concerning the Internet? It's easier to get an AdSense account than a bank account for many people... very disturbing to think about what "they" may be up to (IMHO)
I can say a lot more on this subject... but this is NOT the forum to go into greater detail....
[edited by: alwaysthinking at 1:35 am (utc) on Mar. 10, 2006]
That approach might not defeat the penny-ante fraudsters, but (1) a certain amount of "waste circulation" is inevitable in any advertising medium, whether caused by fraud or not; and (2) most criminals are too greedy to settle for pennies when they're dreaming of dollar signs, which means they're likely to overreach and get caught.
By the way, there's nothing sacrosanct about the CPC pricing model: Down the line, Google could easily move to a CPM model, with the maximum number of impressions served being influenced by a publisher's historical averages, length of time in the network, "signals of quality" on the search side, etc. CPM is the industry standard in other media--including print, broadcast, and online display ads--so why not use it for contextual ads as well? CPC may have made sense in the days when contextual advertising was the new kid on the block and had to prove itself, but today contextual advertising has gone mainstream (and Google could easily use "smart pricing" discounts for CPM ads just as it does for CPC ads).
It doesn't necessarily have to be on a LARGE SCALE for them to be successful... it's just a matter of influencing public perception of a threat... and thereby create fear of the system's security in general.
For instance, I'm almost certain that the actual amount of click-fraud conducted involves relatively a very small percentage of all AdSense transactions... yet all the media attention has blown public awareness of the problem way out of proportion.
Same could hold true with terrorism... doesn't necessarily have to be a HUGE problem... just enough of a threat to cause enough doubt in business people's belief in the network, to pull their ad budgets...
Google doesn't have to prove that the clicks or impressions are fraudulent; it can simply not give credit for clicks or impressions that exceed historical norms by a predetermined margin.
In other words, you are asserting that it is within Google's right to commit reverse click fraud and punish honest sites that perform well.
It doesn't necessarily have to be on a LARGE SCALE for them to be successful... it's just a matter of influencing public perception of a threat... and thereby create fear of the system's security in general.
Maybe, but most people don't buy PPC ads, and the people who do buy PPC ads can easily track how the ads are performing for them. PPC ads are like direct mail--advertisers can easily test and measure their ROI.
In other words, you are asserting that it is within Google's right to commit reverse click fraud and punish honest sites that perform well.
"Fraud" doesn't mean what you apparently think it does, and I'm sure the AdSense TOC would give Google the right to determine the validity of impressions if CPM ever became the standard AdSense pricing model. Still, there's no need to get worked up just yet; AdSense contextual ads were still CPC the last time I checked. :-)
the only way to mask a big spike in clicks is to increase the number of impressions
I used to think so and I probably shouldn't mention the revelation I had on this topic as some slower vandals might think it's a cool idea, but you could introduce code using the browser API that automatically clicks on AdSense ads on any page the regular user surfs and then halt the page load so that the computer owner never knows what's going on, completely transparent.
For all intense purposes, the amount of AdSense clicks would skyrocket from hundreds of thousands of random IPs worldwide without the people enabling the attack even being aware of any roque activity.
Google wouldn't have a clue if such a distributed attack happened unless it escalated out of control by clicking too many ads per page or something crazy like that. Remember, the purpose would be to empty the advertisers pockets, not to be an obvious DOS attack on Google.
