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PHP Gets Major Boost From an Unlikely Spot - Yahoo!

     
11:36 am on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Yahoo has said it is moving some of it's backend programming from C++ to PHP:

[public.yahoo.com...]

Yahoo currently consists of:
8.1m Lines of C++
3.0m Lines of Perl
612 Developers

For those interested in programming, the slide presentation above is fascinating.

12:06 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Some interesting points.

But they should have chosen mod_perl instead ;)

What are YSP as mentioned on Performance Tests [public.yahoo.com]?

The mod_perl seems to suggest that it is just plain perl. Performance wise it was better then anything else at the price of having the highest memory footprint.

Andreas

12:50 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Heck.

201 million uniques, more than 150 million page views a day. Now that is big.

1:46 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Why choose dog-slow perl? Perl processing went out with 8 track tapes.
1:48 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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That is a new definition of load caine.

The YSP is an inhouse language solution they came up with.

1:49 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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201 million uniques, more than 150 million page views a day

Is it just me or does this seem curious..? or do 50 million people visit Y! everyday but never read a page. Maybe they are counting messenger log ons, and various scripting paraphanaliz which are not actually "reading" pages?

2:02 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Uniques a month I think Chiyo.
2:09 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Why not Perl – There’s More Than One Way To Do It

What do they mean by that? Perl can do one thing in many ways or there are other languages out there before perl was picked out the hat?

I'm glad I'm taking time out to learn php if yahoo thinks it should take the time to use it.

I noticed a steady reason throughout for not choosing another language is the level of support the community offers.....good to see that future PHP probs for me will have a community to answer them :)

//added
there is a pdf version [public.yahoo.com].

2:25 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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The YSP is an inhouse language solution they came up with

The main inhouse solutions have been yScript1 [public.yahoo.com] and yScript2 [public.yahoo.com]. And YSP is not yScript2. So what is it? Is it written in Perl? Otherwise the reference to mod_perl [public.yahoo.com] wouldn´t make sense. And it wouldn´t make sense to first develope an inhouse solution for performance testing and then go on using php. Do you have any more information on YSP, Brett?

Why choose dog-slow perl?

Funny you would say that nell, when one of the advantages listed on Why not Perl? [public.yahoo.com] is FreeBSD support and performance is great. Perhaps it is not that slow after all.

Yahoo tested three technologies:

  • PHP 4.1.2 (w/Accel)
  • yScript2 (proprietary)
  • YSP (mod_perl)

It is amazing that the language said to be dog-slow is handling most requests per second, has the highest transfer rate and the lowest processing time.

Andreas
2:31 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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There’s More Than One Way To Do It

What do they mean by that?

Just search for tmtowtdi [google.de] in Google.

Andreas

2:32 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Why choose dog-slow perl?

we chose perl (fast_cgi) almost acctidentially 3 years ago. now we have 150 million PIs and 1 million unique users a month (/add: and 0.3 million lines of code/) - so far it doesn't appear to have been the wrong decision.

as far as i can judge (i'm no sw architect) perl doesn't get bad grades in the paper either.

[edited by: muesli at 2:40 pm (utc) on Oct. 30, 2002]

2:39 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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We will have to await the arrival of the PHP man, he will no doubt shed the sun on why PHP kicks the rotten soggy pants of perl.

who's the php man i hear you say.

try the moderator: jatar_k, and he is big into PHP.

2:40 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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There’s More Than One Way To Do It

Yeah, what do they mean? There's more than one way to code with PHP too. Is one version of PERL so different from another or are we just talking coding styles here?

<added>oops - Andreas you answered as I was typing - thanks</added>

thegimp

2:56 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Why choose dog-slow perl? Perl processing went out with 8 track tapes.

I'm a PHP fan all the way, because it performs fairly well, has lots of community support, and is pretty easy to develop in.

However, we have several web aps (including a high volume banner server/banner tracker/roi calculation server) that use Mod-Perl, and I have to admin that performance wise, it SMOKES php...

3:53 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I'm mostly a PHP programmer, at least when I'm doing web stuff, but I know Perl and I've never seen an 8-track :)

At this point, I'm too invested in PHP for my big personal-time project, but I won't be looking for Perl to drop off the map unless and until Perl 6 comes out and sucks. So far, I haven't heard anything to make me think it will.

<edit> caught an antecedent error </edit>

4:59 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I'm not getting into a php vs perl discussion. I think they are equals and both deserve respect. I don't think one or the other is better, aside from my small bias.

I started in perl and php was just more comfortable for me and that was the way I had to go.

About time php got a boost from someone high profile. It would be even nicer if they had a "powered by php" on the yahoo serp's. ;) I will have to take the time to read that whole article/minisite, looks very interesting.

5:10 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Yeah I use perl for some things and PHP for others... for me, perl is just more flexible and the syntax (or lack of it) helps. I like the ability to do things in more than one fashion.
5:32 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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As far as Yahoo and programming languages go, how many of you are familiar with this article:

Beating the Averages
[paulgraham.com...]

"It describes how we used Lisp to write Viaweb Store, which is still, as Yahoo! Store, the most popular e-commerce software, running about 14,000 stores"

Lisp!

7:06 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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PHP is both faster to program and faster to execute than CGI scripts. PHP was written for specifically for dynamic web page creation, Perl(VB Script and Java) was not. Although Perl can do things PHP cannot, Perl should be used only for those things and nothing else.
As far as my reference to "8 track tapes", today more people are learning PHP scripting than those learning the Perl language. I believe the next "big thing" in the world of internet technology is PHP not CGI and Perl.
7:41 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Nell, here are some benchmark studies:
[chamas.com...]
According to those graphs mod_perl still squeaks ahead of mod_php.
8:07 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

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>PHP is both faster to program and faster to execute than CGI scripts.

Yes, mod_php is faster than Perl CGI, but PHP CGI is the slowest and mod_perl is the fastest.

>There?s More Than One Way To Do It

if (1) { do_stuff(); }
do_stuff if (1);
do_stuff() unless (!1);
...

and a few more.

In other words in Perl you can code exactly the same thing in a lot more ways than any other language. Everything you throw at Perl compiles ;-)

12:40 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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In other words in Perl you can code exactly the same thing in a lot more ways than any other language. Everything you throw at Perl compiles

With so many programmers, isn't it acutally better when there is only *one* way to do something?

12:53 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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no. because if there was one solution to live, then there would never be any problems.

Programming, as with other intellectual persuits, is an abstract world, in which every body whether they like it or not have some knowledge.

1:05 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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That's just what they are saying Dane. So many ways to do it, that it means maintenance is more difficult. There is no forced standardization across all their code.
2:43 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I started out as a PERL programmer, it was good for regular expressions but it wasn't built for the web. When I first started considering switching to PHP i wondered if it would be around in 5 or 10 years. PHP is great for web applications and databases. I think YAHOO! picking PHP is a major boost for the language.
3:13 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Brett, you are starting to sound like a Python programmer.
3:17 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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hehe. I looked at python for a long time and I sort like that aspect about it. If it were a team of programmers, I'd think python would be very attractive to work on.
3:31 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Why choose dog-slow perl?

That was funny...

4:35 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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please don't feed the trolls ;-)
5:26 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Related articles surfacing:
[internetnews.com...]
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