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keyword density too high

     

HuhuFruFru

7:50 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



i analysed the keyword density for my main site - it is 29%. i never noticed this, because i really *need the keywords where they are*. so should i change it?

agerhart

7:52 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I wouldn't worry about it, keyword density doesn't play too much of a role.

HuhuFruFru

7:54 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



hi agerhart,

but why then is it so much discussed here (with the tools and so)?

so 29% it is not considered spam?

HitProf

8:33 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



keyword density doesn't play too much of a role

I totally disagree with that. Keyword density is very important.
I don't exactly know how much is too much, but you can try to use variations. Make a typo or rephrase some sentences to single/plural to solve the problem. If it's a product name, leave it out once or twice.

And don't forget that the results of different keyword density checkers differ very much. Only lower your density after your visual check agrees with them :) They are no more than an indication. Personally I use them as an advanced keyword counter.

agerhart

8:35 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I totally disagree with that. Keyword density is very important.

Unless you can show me current proof, I totally disagree, and have proof of my statement.

We have seen pages with extremely high keyword density rank well, as well as lower than normal keyword density.

The fact of the matter is that keyword density does not play a vital role within today's algorithms.

jeremy goodrich

8:39 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



he he, actually, agerhart -> I've seen contrary examples. :)

As in, a keyword phrase with a certain density getting very good ranking in Google. And, many, many pages ranking very well in INK - explained only by keyword density.

The factors aside from that would not explain the ranking - only density / and or keyword distribution.

After a fashion though, those are the same, as a certain distribution of keyword(s) will also lend itself to a range of density.

So, my current experience shows information that is contrary to yours.

HitProf

8:49 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



agerhart, I work with a lot of new sites and I know for a fact that they beat the incoming links from the establishment. In low competition area's a single extra occurence of a word can make the difference.

agerhart

8:51 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



In low competition area's a single extra occurence of a word can make the difference.

I also work with alot of sites, although not usually in low competition areas. Once you get into the competitive areas, a single word won't make much of a difference.

jeremy goodrich

8:54 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



:) Sure it can, dude.

I have a hunch I work in some of the same 'competitive' areas as you do, agerhart -> and adding a single word to your page can have massive impact on your rankings.

It just depends on how you add it.

agerhart

8:57 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



It just depends on how you add it.

Ahhhh...now, you are talking about something different. Sure, placing keywords in certain places or within certain tags can have an impact...no question. I stand by my claim that merely adding one or two additional keywords to the text of a page does not play a large role in ranking.

Quinn

8:57 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It just depends on how you add it.

This changes the argument though. I suspect agerhart is referring to the main body of text in a site.

<edit>must type too slow

[edited by: Quinn at 9:02 pm (utc) on Feb. 27, 2003]

HitProf

9:00 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Once you get into the competitive areas
you simply add more than one word :)

jeremy goodrich

9:04 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Well, *any* addition to a page is going to have formatting - in a paragraph or not? In bold or not?

At the bottom? At the top?

We know things like this are considered...so - you could also make the argument that there is no such thing as just adding a keyword, it will go someplace *on the page* and we *can't know* how any engine will treat the various parts of the page.

So, I say that adding another instance anywhere will help. :) As long as the keyword is relevant to the page.

Though adding that, like anything else, is only *1 more thing you are doing* and it's better to focus on many things, not just one thing.

Hm, I will say though, agerhart that your claims are interesting - first you say, "no role in today's algorithms" and then you say, "not much of a role...".

If it is that wishy washy, then the fact still remains - adding a keyword will help.

agerhart

9:13 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Well, *any* addition to a page is going to have formatting - in a paragraph or not? In bold or not?

So, you are going to tell me that a keyword within a <h1> tag is going to have the same effect as a keyword within a <p>? I'd like to see the proof.

Hm, I will say though, agerhart that your claims are interesting - first you say, "no role in today's algorithms" and then you say, "not much of a role...".

I apologize, I forgot to re-read the post and detail my every remark before posting.

jeremy goodrich

9:16 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



No need to apologize - but I would like to know, what algorithm you are refering to when you say, "today's alogirithms..." etc.

? Hilltop?

Kleinberg / hubs & authorities?

PageRank?

The infamous Term Vector Database?

Hits?

Just so we're clear. I forgot to ask when you posted that bit.

digitalghost

9:16 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member digitalghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Keyword density in the body text has very little to do with ranking. I can create a page with "bacon" in the title, "bacon" in a header tag and add three paragraphs of greeking to the body content and as long as I get anchors pointing to the page with the word "bacon" in them I can get the page to rank well.

Don't believe me? Try it. Take a page that already ranks well and strip out the body content and replace it with greeking. I don't think you'll see any change, I didn't.

I do prefer having my keword phrases in the first paragraph of the body text but that only seems to help with engines like Inktomi and Teoma.

I did the greeking experiment about 4 months ago but I'm sure the results will be the same for anyone that wants to try it now...

agerhart

9:17 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



what algorithm you are refering to when you say, "today's alogirithms..." etc.

The ones that bring traffic. I don't spend my time evaluating AVs.

jeremy goodrich

9:19 pm on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Hm, ok...algorithms don't bring traffic though - search engines do. :)

HitProf

9:15 am on Feb 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I think we're going a bit off topic.

HuhuFruFru's question was: can keyword density be too high?

Another means of lowering keyword density is to simply add some yada yada without the targeted keyword in it.

HuhuFruFru

9:33 am on Feb 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>simply add some yada yada without the targeted keyword in it

:) :) that's a good idea!

but in which way?

1) "keyword" - yada yada - "keyword"
2) "keyword" - "keyword" - yada yada

i would prefer the first one, because i don't want to put yada yada between the keywords.

HitProf

2:10 pm on Feb 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



ahum, then you'd better prefer the second one :)
 

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