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I proposed a group of keywords to my boss to use(fictional example):
(free classifieds, new computers, used, etc etc)
She says placing used the way it is has no meaning, and we would be getting customers looking for anything used instead of what we are selling. My argument is, so what. At least you will still get the person who types in used computers, right? Or no? Wouldn't the SE hit off the 'computers', and the 'used' even though their seperate keyword phrases. Or would I have to have 'used computers' there instead of just 'used' for the SE to pick up on it?
This is actually for Direct Hit which only allows 60 characters in your keywords on their submission page. So trying to keep it short is important! Of course I also want to see how this applies in all keyword cases. Thanks to anyone who can help.
Another words if I put (new computers, used computers, old computers) wouldn't that get me in trouble with the Se's?
As opposed to (new computers, old, used)?
1381112 computer
390426 computer game
214261 computer hardware
68098 computer part
64748 computer equipment
63490 computer accessory
57417 computer job
51184 computer cable
44013 computer training
43504 dell computer
41248 computer internet
32728 computer virus
32588 computer wallpaper
30833 free computer
28398 gateway computer
* 25459 used computer *
25143 computer security
22704 computer system
21048 computer service
20517 computer graphic
19348 computer desk
18657 computer case
17562 laptop computer
16509 computer history
15772 computer software
14673 computer memory
14532 computer networking
14086 free computer game
13925 apple computer
13203 computer network
13014 computer furniture
12670 compaq computer
12437 computer auction
12276 computer monitor
12074 computer sale
11196 computer dictionary
10828 computer science
10214 computer store
10113 history of computer
Depending on what you sell, give them the relevant term they are searching for
However, I still have to write these tags out for my boss.
Now according to the goto report that Mike was nice enough to provide which keyword list would be acceptable or unacceptable?
(computer hardware, computer game, computer equipment, computer part)
or
(computer hardware, game, equipment, part)
That is my true question.
(computer hardware, computer game, computer equipment, computer part)
or
(computer hardware, game, equipment, part)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
The answer to this, and someone can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, is that you have two options. One is to arrange them like so: (computer hardware, computer game, computer equipment, computer part). Another option you have is to leave out the commas all together, which will leave more combinations open for the SE's. This is something that I picked up here, and I know that is debated quite a bit as to its usefullness. Hope I helped.
-A Gerhart
Averhart if that is true, then it sounds like leaving out commas would be the best choice for everyone. Anyone else have info on this?
If I used:
(computer hardware, computer game, computer equipment, computer part).
Wouldn't that get me in trouble for spamming the word computer?
AV suggests using the keyword tag to add words that aren't covered in your regular page copy (synonyms and such). Other sources I've read say that keywords which aren't in your page are totally discounted.
My experience over the past months says that META keywords just don't make much difference one way or another. If and where they still matter at all, a short list is all that matters, and certainly keep the total repetitions under control.
Today I use the tag to remind me about the phrases I was targetting on the page. It's a handy place to keep that info, but I expect nothing more from the tag but a place for me to keep my notes.
Edited by: tedster
When I see this, I usually figure that if I want to rank on AV for such a phrase, that an inexact match isn't going to do it.
As for the commas, I don't think that most engines really see the commas, so in repeating, say, the word "computer" over and over, you're running the risk of some sort of spamming penalty. I usually make it a rule of thumb not to repeat a word, either in metas or on the page, unless I have five intervening words. It isn't always possible to avoid repetition, but I try.
In my experience, it's more important to get your exact phrases in the title and prominently on the page than it is in the keywords. The meta description is also more important than the keywords.
I like to keep meta keywords short and focussed. Inktomi doesn't look at a keyword if it isn't on the page. They might even penalize you for it. On AV, though, where they say they look at keywords as if they're simply words near the top of the page, too long a list of untargeted keywords can actually cause a relevance drop in what you want to target with your page. This is one of the most common optimizing mistakes I see.
(boats,classifieds,used boats,yachts,power boats,personal watercraft,sailboats,for sale,sail boat,jet ski,fishing boat,pontoon boat,powerboat,cruiser,speed boat,outboard,inboard,engines,buy,sell,parts,accessories,merchandise,yachting,fishing,marine,finance,insurance,boating,ski boat,pre-owned,yachting,houseboat,marine supply,bayliner,catalina,baja,schooner,tug,motoryacht,custom,catamaran,catalina,events,jet,vessel,sportcraft,bass,sea ray,sportcraft,triton,deck,wellcraft,chaparral,hunter,pwc,trawler,mako,sloop,cutter,marconi,gulfstar,bayliner,boston whaler)
Now in reference to the above discussion, how would you rate this meta tag?
Length?
keyword repeating? (especially boat)
comma location?
anything else?
I would appreciate any feedback on this. I'm just having a rough time getting this meta tag stuff down pat. Even if it doesn't make much of a difference, I still want to get it right. Thanks if you can help.
I personally keep the number of keywords down, use words in proximity to form phrases, and just my personal preference, eliminated most of my use of commas in the meta keywords tag. Opinions vary, but I personally experienced a vast improvement.
Here's an overview of optimization, with good advice on quantity and usage of keywords:
Note: It was Robert_Charlton who gave me this advice about limiting number of keywords, for which I will always remain grateful :) Thanks again, Robert!
You're very welcome, Marcia. :)
Here is what I got out of it:
Keep the initial keywords under 250 characters, but you can go up to 744 characters.
Now it seems Brett is saying the opposite of Marcia. She is saying to keep it short, but Brett is allowing up to 744 characters. Which is way longer than the example I posted above.
Now as I am reading the article, and I am getting excited about using his tactics. So as soon as I am done reading the first thing I go do is check his meta tags. Guess what? He has none! What's that all about??
So now I am really confused! This thread seemed to have the theme in the beginning that keywords aren't that important. Brett's article makes them sound very important! Yet he doesn't have any on that article??
The article didn't address keyword repeating, unless I missed it(I'm barely awake still). So my question still remains of did I use the word 'boat' too much in the example up above?
Thanks for all the help guys!
I'm still in the dark on how to get the great rankings with absolutely no Meta's, but as a result of this site I am getting a grip on the subject.
-A Gerhart
A very broad guideline that I personally stay with to do the keywords meta tag: I don't use any words that don't appear in the page text. No more than 3 repetitions of any particular word, with 3 words in between occurrences of repetitions. If there are very few keywords used on the page, I might just use each only once or twice. The most important come first.
I try to stay with plurals - for example, people would probably not type the word game in by itself for a search, but they might look for used computer games.
They are a great way to be organized, as well as concentrate your efforts on one to two keywords per page.
If applicable to the project you are working on, I think that themes are worth a shot, especially for some of the theme-based SE's.
Marcia, if you follow the link Ager just posted Brett says that useing a word three times can get you penalized on Alta Vista.
Ok so using my keyword example above would I be better off instead of saying:
used power boat, sail boat, ski boat, etc
should i instead use:
used, boat, power, sail, ski, etc
Or am I totally off track? Somebody please help me find the right way to express the above keywords. Thanks. :)
Bear with me, I will get this down sooner or later!
This is the best explanation of themes, and currently we are landing a big job which I plan to use themes on. I have tried to incorporate them on already completed sites, but in my opinion you can only get optimized results by starting from scratch.
I understand your feeling of being overwhelmed, as I am still in the same boat you are. There is alot to learn here, and alot of very smart people to learn from.
With regards to your question about what to do on those keywords.....if you are going to use the second example, maybe try leaving out the commas. Some people don't like this method, but I have heard it works.
Several comments about Brett's article, and I don't mean to be putting words into Brett's mouth... the article is at least a year or two old, and the importance of the meta keyword tag has diminished. Also, since the article was written, engines have reacted against an overuse of keywords. I remember that somewhere Brett posted that AV, for example, is only looking at the first 80 characters of a keyword tag.
Additionally, theming has become an important consideration... suggesting that you need to focus your whole site around 10 or so prime keywords at most. I believe this has come about partially because engines have had to take a wider view of the web as the number of sites has increased... so, whereas before the core of optimizing was focusing a page, when things get sufficiently competitive it's now necessary to focus a site.
Notice that the word "focusing" keeps coming up here. Whether you're optimizing a page or a site, you need to limit what you target.
There's a lot of reading to do on the board here... but if you keep in mind that you need to create a prominence for the search engines by focusing your site content, structure, and links... and that you've got to do that without excessive repetition... I think that will help you a lot.
