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How would you define a "competitive" KW phrase?

         

reddevil

11:45 am on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi,

How does everybody in this forum decide/define a "competitive" KW phrase?

Eg. When would an "average" webmaster/SEO optimiser decide that it isn't worth spending too much time on a particular KW phrase because it was too difficult to rank high enough in SERPS?

Would it be when "allintitle" is above a certain number? What number?
Would it be when "allinanchor" is above a certain number? What number?
What other considerations do people give?

Thanks.

buckworks

12:24 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



For me the most important factor is not a number, it's a gut-level assessment about whether the term is being seriously pursued by knowledgeable SEOs.

sem4u

12:52 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I agree buckworks. Look at how many sites for you keywords look like they have been optimised well. That will give you some indication of the competitiveness.

trillianjedi

1:29 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yes, buckworks is absolutely right - gut-level assessment based on (quality) SEO in the sector.

There might only be 100 pages in a sector, but if they're all PR10 and SEO'd to perfection with a million anchor text inbounds, you have a lot of work to do to get to up from position 101.

Big exaggeration, but you get the picture.

TJ

keywordguru

1:37 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Couldn't agree more with everyone.
I always like to start by seeing what competition is out there. To start, search in google for your keyword. If extremely relevant sites are showing, this probably means that your term has lots of competition. You should then analyze the top 20 roughly just to see what you are up against (Back Links, PR, etc)
Then there is always the rule where you can try for a term. If you see that your rankings are not showing within a few months, leave these designed pages as a content section of your site where they will have some type of value to the visitor, and continue on to your next phrase. This way, you are building content and not just sitting around. You can also then see if your ranks begin to climb from those previously targetted pages.
Its all trial and error at this stage ;)

bakedjake

1:38 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



allinanchor is typically what I use as a gauge. The more results that show, the more competitive it is IMHO.

As the other posters have said, there's no hard and fast rule - it really is a gut feel... but allinanchor does provide some guidance.

trillianjedi

3:06 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



allinanchor is typically what I use as a gauge.

Allinanchor on it's own will not show you the sometimes massive gulf between the various pages listed top 10. No matter how many results it returns.

Organic links naturally follow top 10 SERPS result pages for competitive terms in my experience. Often getting to #9 with a really decent site is all you need to do. Then wait.

So relying on allinanchor, seeing a high number of returns and quiting the game, could be a mistake as the #9 or #10 spot is actually there for the taking with only a little legwork.

That, imo, is where the gut instinct part must come into it in order to make an informed decision.

TJ

hdpt00

3:23 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)



Can anyone classify the competitiveness for allinanchor results, such as

0-1,000 = easy
1,000-5,000 = medium

Something like that, I have no clue...

Anyone want to post a little guide that we can somewhat go by. Obviously things like PR of the top pages will also be another factor, but maybe this can give us a general outlook.

graywolf

3:46 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I also try to notice if there are any ".gov" or ".edu" pages competing.

pmac

3:53 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Allinanchor plus I take a look at the number of backlinks from sites ranking from position 5-20 or so. That, plus my gut gives me a pretty good indication if I will step into the batters box or not.

PatrickDeese

4:11 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Can anyone classify the competitiveness for allinanchor results, such as
0-1,000 = easy
1,000-5,000 = medium

under 10K: easy -1
under ~50K: easy
under ~100K: easy +1
under ~500K: medium -1
under ~1 million: medium +1
~2 million - 5 million: hard -1
~5 - 10 million: hard +1
~10 million and higher: extremely competitive.

reddevil

4:57 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Patrick - but you are joking, right!?

hdpt00

5:12 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)



What do you think it should be reddevil?

PatrickDeese

5:58 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



> Patrick - but you are joking, right!?

no - not really.

Myself personally if I see anything under 100K search results (not allinanchor results) - I pretty much consider that fair game, open territory, virgin market - whatever you want to call it.

hdpt00

6:01 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)



Oh, so your guide was for just SERPs, not allinanchor? I think that might have thrown off reddevil...

reddevil

7:00 pm on Jul 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yeh, that threw me off the track. The quote at the top of Patrick's message referred to allinanchor and then quoted the figures of 1 million+ etc.

Myself, I am a very poor SEO and I am finding it difficult to get in the Top 20 for ANY of my pages. Even the KWs that have less than 500 in allintitle and allinanchor, I still rank in the 100's.

Up till now, I have only used allintitle and allinanchor to gauge the competition but since this thread I have looked at the PR and backlinks of my competitors who are in the top 20. But now my confidence has been hit even more coz they have less backlinks and a lower PR!

Gee whizz I must be doing something seriously wrong so I think I might give up being a web-beginner and take up crochet instead (apologies to any crochet webdesigners out there).

nuevojefe

7:51 am on Jul 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



reddevil,

Definitely use yahoo or alltheweb to check backlinks as many are no longer showing in google. It's selective.

Also, quantity doesn't always beat quality so do some investigation.

Focus on structure, linking and good content. There isn't much you can't do with those three factors so long as you don't blatently break any rules. Your site also won't do well generally for 2-3 months if it's brand new. Do a search for "sandbox" for more on that.