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I have been reading these forums for a few months and I am trying to figure out how do you professionals come up with your fees.
Is it because there are few and far between?
You have super high expenses in research and development?
No disrespect, simply some pains to be able to efford a professional.
I think there is a misconception, at least I had, that SEO Pros are limited to key phrase and submission experts.
I narrowed the field to these two areas, which is incorrect. Black_Knight made some good points regarding how SEO is only part of his work, and he is more of a marketing consultant.
How many of you only and only do "pure" SEO work? What would you define as such?
*lol* You'll have to define "pure SEO work." As mentioned here and in other threads, SEO doesn't start or end with meta tags and ranking reports.
The term "search engine optimization" is a misnomer, and very misleading. It is promotion and marketing as well as whatever else the client needs.
I advise my clients on everything from stickiness to pricing; from seasonal attractions to copy; from navigation to press releases. I hold their hands through difficult times, and send them studies about trends in their industries. I analyze their traffic reports and their ranking reports. I perform a fine act which is similar to juggling while tap dancing in order to keep their site on top and making money.
Now, in a medium where every 16-year-old with a computer and a connection calls himself a designer, where every high school student who gets an "eye-opening" email from "make-money-while-you-sleep" scams calls himself a marketer, and where everyone who discovers the URL to Google calls himself an SEO, I cannot speak for all, but I do know I speak for many legitimate professionals when I say that the business involves more than meta tags and long titles.
And while we're on the subject, I think we should lobby to have the term "SEO" changed...
(edited by: Laisha at 4:40 am (gmt) on Dec. 11, 2001)
Or at least the definition.
Danny has suggested SEO be changed to SEM, "Search Engine Marketing", but I believe even that falls short of the whole process.
I view this in terms of the Gestalt rather than the individual processes. As Laisha says, in reality the whole thing is so all encompassing and interdependant it is not possible to draw an exact line and say where design and construction stops and promotion starts, or where usability ends and sales begins. The whole is so much greater that every now and then one needs to step back and look at the forest for a while before getting back to pruning the trees.
SEO is not about Search Engines per se, it is about doing what needs to be done to ensure the site does whatever it is supposed to do, which does include, but is not restricted to, Search Engine positioning whether by design or payment.
Therefor, I define SEO as "Site Enhancement & Optimisation"
Knowing how to do all that is not easy and takes hours/days/years of research/experience/success/failure and so on. That is what you are paying for.
Onya
Woz
"The price of a thing is what it will bring"
I've been hanging around here for a while now, and while I have learned a lot about SEO and some general tech/web design stuff, I don't even come close to the top guys here. Not even slightly
Now thats partly because SEO is only a small part of my job, at the moment we just offer low level services to small clients who want to improve their standings so they aren't totally buried. As such, including the time I spend here, I doubt I spend more than 20 - 30% of my time on this area, and we don't offer the 24/7 TLC that the top bods do.
The ones who charge $100, $200+ per hour can spend as much time in a week doing research, keeping up with developments, keeping tabs on clients sites, watching SERPs for particular keywords etc, etc as some people with full time jobs spend at work. Thats BEFORE you get to billable time. 7 day weeks and occasional (or not so occasional!) 100+ hour weeks, not to mention 24 hour call are part of the service from some of the real pros. Also you are paying for a lot of knowledge and experience and "knowing which nut to turn".
Look at it from a corporate POV also. Imagine a company has just spent £500,000 on a new site. If it sits at the bottom of the listings, its a waste of money. Or you can hire an SEO pro, £100/hour, 5 hours a month = £6000/year. Thats a shade over 1% of your captal investment, but a really good SEO will convert that site from a capital investment write-off to a revenue stream. Its a no-brainer
In many ways its analogous to hiring a contract developer. Why bother when you can just learn the language yourself? Because its quicker and cheaper to hire a pro, whos done the basic skull-sweat work. Same thing applies to SEO
Ah, well the second question there is the clincher. SEOs (and other related professionals) have been debating what exactly SEO is and/or incorporates for years. I expect the debate will go on for many years more.
For some SEO is merely a technical thing. Its purely algorithmic and number-crunching. Such SEOs generally understand the how of search technology, but not the why. They can decode some of the algorithm, and can do word counts, but they don't really understand sales, nor what the SE were aiming for with that algorithm, nor demographics, etc etc.
For others, SEO is about marketing. These are more like salesmen who know how (and where) to submit. These types will generally bring a client more profits, but lower rankings than the prior type.
For yet others, SEO is a mixture of many different field of expertise. They understand the how, and the why of both the engines, and the searchers themselves. They will focus on sending the 'right' prospects to a site.
Let's look at some of the most obvious aspects of SEO in detail. Some may not be as obvious as others.
Optimising Pages.
Think this is the bit Laisha referred to? Yes, but there's a lot more too. Some may simply add Title and Meta Tags, but there is also keyword placement and weighting (without spoiling the human appeal of the page). There is taking the holistic view of a section or a site with regards to vertical Themes, and making each page work towards creating a whole (site) that is greater than the sum of its parts (pages). I could write a book on this aspect of SEO alone.
Submission.
Anyone can submit. The pro's know which submissions will have the highest ROI, and which are a waste of time. The pro's know which kinds of people tend to use each engine. There is a real art to phrasing a web directory description that is acceptable to the directory editor, and still appealing to the prospective visitor. A description, like a page, has to be optimised carefully to meet both the needs of the client, the needs of the directory, and the needs of your prospective customers - to do that in less than 25 words is an art in itself.
Monitoring.
Anyone can use a tool to monitor position. The smarter SEOs monitor a lot more. A SEO pro can tell you which of your competitors are also using SEO. They can monitor your traffic to see which listings are not just sending the most traffic, but which are sending the best prospects and the most new custom - the two are often different listings. The effects of having people arrive at deep content, rather than follow a set path (and sales pitch) from the homepage are often more than you may expect. An SEO knows how to handle this to make each and every page work towards your goal, so that your selling is as optimised as your position.
The above barely scratches the surface, but hopefully gives an idea of the diversity between 'levels' of SEO expertise.
Ammon Johns
Now, with factors like theme analysis, link popularity, spam prevention, etc., it has become far more important for the primary site to be well designed both for search engines and human visitors. This is the real art in current SEO techniques - creating sites that can rank well but still accomplish their business objectives. Similarly, this is what distinguishes the better players in this business - the ability to see the big picture, and wear multiple hats (marketing guru, designer, SEO), or at least integrate these capabilities into the team.
You're lucky to get someone that's good at this business for $100 an hour.
People who are really good at this business can do better than that running their own e-commerce site and not have to put up with people whining about their fees.
A lot of companies spend a lot of money putting their website name on the side of a bus but I am seldom in any position to visit websites when a bus drives by me. On the other hand when I get home and sit at my computer I don't remember what was on the side of the bus so I go to (insert preferred search engine here) and do some looking around I search for the name of the item I am looking for. Now even though that company spent a ton of money plastering their domain name on all the things that aren't near my computer they still only get my business if they are:
1. in my engine of choice
2. provide the service I am looking for in a manner that appeals to me
So, where does this leave my 100$ an hour?
I realize this view works more for larger businesses but it would seem that their marketing budgets may be misspent and misdirected. It also would make more sense for them to pay my 100$ an hour to promote their site within the market they are trying to target than wasting it on less targeted areas.
It would also seem more cost effective to target their researched keywords relevant to their business that are proven to have a measured number of searches on a given engine as opposed to hoping that 10 people might remember their domain name when a bus cuts them off in rush hour.
Why make a website if it never gets a hit?
Websites cost money to make, even if it is just your time, and why would you make it if not for it to get traffic? In this environment, regardless of the site's purpose, the site itself becomes the marketed product. Search Engines don't really care what you sell but if you market, and optimize your site properly and adhere to the criteria it will tell the people searching for your products or services what you sell.
It would seem that if you don't want anyone on your site then don't make one and if you can't afford to put it where people can find it then you can't sell it. We all know these rules apply to traditional products but when we talk websites and search engines instead of bread and bakeries everyone gets confused.
<added>
when you want to take out an ad you call a newspaper
when you want a print campaign you get someone who specializes in them
when you want to market a website you get us ......
at 100$ an hour
</added>
at 100$ an hour
</added>"
which compares well for the exposure with any of the other media
:)
A good SEO will have a vast amount of knowledge about search engine optimization (of course), design, usability (especially navigation), content taxonomy, audience development, guiding the client with setting up a strong USP (though I prefer the term positioning statement), etc.
The true underlying reason for hiring SEO is because a client would like to increase the action/revenue or per se enrich the objective (this can be many different things like increasing subscription for ezine or publication companies, increasing registration, increasing sales, etc...you get the point)
Three fundamental components are needed to enrich the objective:
1. Better Merchandizing (every customer to spend more money or engage in an action)
2. Better Conversion rate (convert more prospects into customers)~string attached~buidling relationship to achieve better retention rate
3. Better Traffic (the number of people coming to the site)
The common misunderstanding of the SEO is that it drives more traffic to the site, and that's all that is for. What good is traffic when Merchandizing and Conversion is not there to utilize the traffic?
It's a whole package you purchase, and you are purchasing a knowledge that's deeply rooted in conventional marketing. Many wouldn't think twice about droppping $100+ on a consultant, but it's a different case when it comes to a SEO. I, personally, don't see a difference between the two. If anything SEO is a better option, since typical consultant wouldn't even touch a technical issue such as search engine optimization.
I am an inhouse staff, so I don't get to smack down $100+ fees. LOL.
I don't mean to sound snappy; I had two hours sleep last night:)
Good Luck!
