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Interesting methodology...

Can someone explain how this is achieved?

         

feeder

1:59 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



(Look in my profile for the URL)

The source code is not what appears on the page, yet there doesn't appear to be a frame set being used.

Granted, it's a fairly spammy, dubious approach however I'm interested as to how this is achieved. Is this another example of a javascript redirect?

Macguru

2:08 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



<DIV CLASS="hidden">

How "subtile" SPAM!

;)

toolman

2:10 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It's in the style sheet. <div class="hidden">

I think I would use a different class name.
This method is flawed and not cross browser.
It locked up NN4.7

feeder

2:14 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



thanks guys...very dubious indeed!

Macguru

2:20 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Do we agree this guy did not listened to "do not try this stunt at home" warning? :)

Printer supply is a highly competitive market and this client got stale recycled toner in the cartrige. ;)

feeder

2:30 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



In agreement. However, Google hasn't picked it up. I note this site ranks top ten.

Macguru

2:34 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Does this site have the kw or k phrase in visible area?

How about the PR?

feeder

2:51 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The page itself is lacking in keywords (graphic heavy) The linking is quite good.

Are you saying that if the linking is good, then Google don't care what "on page" technique you use???

toolman

2:57 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have a site that ranks right underneath a competitors site (his name in the title). My site hasn't got the keyword anywhere on it but I have prolly, say, 300 pages elsewhere with the anchor text as his site name and my sites url as the link.

Macguru

3:03 am on Nov 13, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Of course Google cares if the Keyword appears on the visible portion of the page. That is the point. If Google still index invisible portions else from URL and page title...

Page rank is very important to Google. It seems that wherever the word will appear on visible portions of page page rank will do the rest. Of course this statement is exagerated, but just a little...

So, does the Keyword appear on page?

<added>posted after toolman, of course studying links to this site could help</added> ;)

ebgreen

1:02 pm on Nov 22, 2001 (gmt 0)



Is this <DIV CLASS="hidden"> considered spam?

Black Knight

4:50 pm on Nov 22, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Only if used to SPAM. :)

There are many honest and reasonable uses to hidden layers, not least mouse-over effects and 'tool tips'.

There are many possible dishonest uses too. Unfortunately spammers will eventually force all engines to recognise and ignore any hidden layers - and thus further harm dhtml sites.

Ammon Johns

webby2001

9:36 pm on Dec 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have perhaps a different take on the use of hidden / offset layers than others.

They do in fact have a use outside SEO and design issues.

1. They provide an alternative to "Home ¦ index ¦ links ..." in the serps of those search engines that ignore the meta descriptions.
2. They assist the blind who can get a useful description of a graphic rich site through text reading programs.

I personally don't even regard all SEO uses of them as spam as long as the content is relevant and the proverbial hasn't been kicked out of it.

However, and it is a big however, they are clearly open to abuse. I've seen occasions where the contents of the meta keywords were copied and pasted about 40 times in a continuous string inside a layer with hidden attributes. Not even an attempt was made at copy writing.

I can't comment on the url mentioned in the originating post as the url has been removed from the profile so I can not give an opinion on wehether imo it crosses the line. Was the layer content at least relevant?

I am going to tentatively hold my hand up here and say that I use offset layers (a slight difference to using the css hidden attribute)on my hobby backgammon site. I have a 2 liner which describes my site. It is the first thing after my body tag and I am under no illusions that it is a factor for my site ranking top 10 under various backgammon related terms.
I've changed the url in my profile so you can have a look for yourself.

The concern of course is that if the method becomes widely known (oops this post isnt helping to stop that :) then the level of abuse will reach a level that will in turn force the SEs hands to take action. How far off they are to detecting it is not really known. To date they do not index external css/js files for example, but that day may come.

I'd be interested in knowing if my peers and betters in this forum personally consider the methodology I have used on my backgammon site as spam. Also, IYO Do you believe if it was a commercial site, and if reported by a competitor, I'd get penalised?

Regards

Alan

PS. I understand some of the posters / readers may not want to go public with their opinions on this gray area. A sticky or email would be just as welcome.

toolman

10:28 pm on Dec 14, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I agree that this is a useful way to use hidden layers.

Unfortunately there are spammers and newbies that will load up the layer with a million keywords as well as the self-righteous, self-appointed internet police that will ruin it for everyone else.