Is <h5> tag precede <h1> tag bad for SEO?

[shilmy]

Hi,

I'm using open source CMS for my site. By default, it use <h1> tag as "Site Title" in the Header, so for every page, the text of <h1> tag is always the same, for example <h1>My Site</h1>.

To avoid this, I've replaced <h1> with <h5>, and use <h1> tag for Article Title. Now in every page <h5> will precede <h1> tag.

Is it creating problem in SEO view?

Thanks,
Sjarief

[caveman]

Surely the CMS allows you to customize the H1 for each page? Not much of a CMS if it doesn't.

I'm not sure about what the effects are of what you're discribing, but it's wacky at best and far from ideal.

[Receptional Andy]

Whether this is bad for SEO is a subject for debate. What is likely if an H5 appears before an H1 is that you are using headings in a logical way that reflects the structure of your document.

Try running your pages through the W3c validator [validator.w3.org] with the 'show outline' option checked. Ideally, this will give you a list of headings in a way that reflects the structure and flow of your document. If it doesn't seem to do so then the chances are that your content is being 'misrepresented'.

Keep in mind that an H1 heading should be the main heading and it shouldn't be the same on every page (unless the content is the same on every page of course!).

[trillianjedi]

If an SE ever has a reason to run any of it's "tools" over your pages, it's not impossible that your markup will have a detrimental effect.

That said, I've never actually seen this type of bad markup have such an effect in isolation of other factors (if you're cloaking and serving this only to bots, it probably won't look good for example).

It is not, of course, the "correct" way to mark up a page. H tags are designed to be nested in sequence. Personally, I would go with W3C compliance and usability over any thoughts on it's effect on rankings (unless you are cloaking) - these kind of badly marked up pages play havoc on mobile devices, for example.

TJ

[caveman]

What is likely if an H5 appears before an H1 is that you are using headings in a logical way

Receptional Andy, perhaps I'm misunderstanding this comment, but I don't think too many would agree that placing an H5 above an H1 onpage is logical. I doubt that it would cause any significant problems, but it is not logical or optimal from an SEO perspective.

H1's are, by definition, the most important elements on the page. From W3:

H1 elements are more important than H2 elements and so on, so that H6 elements define the least important level of headings

H5 is far less important than H1. It may be preferable in some unusual circumstances to place an h5 above an H1, but that means one is also placing less important elements above more important elements on a page.

Readers read top down, and so the most important elements should generally go higher on a page.

Also, SE's interpret contents that are physically higher on a page as being more important than elements that are physically lower on a page.

So while I'd agree that the precise SEO effects of reversing the onpage order of Hx tags is unknown, placiing H5's above H1's is certainly not preferable, or logical.
;-)

Caveat: One could I suppose use CSS to order the elements one way in the code and another on the visible page, but this all seems far more complex than necessary.

Bottom line: get the CMS working such that you can tell the SE's via logical and correct use of H1's what the most important point of any given page is.

<added>Plus, what TJ said. TJ, ya beat me to it. That was fast. ;-)</added>

[Receptional Andy]

Doh! I missed a 'not' in my post and made the whole meaning the opposite of what I meant (don't you hate it when that happens?). That should have been:

not using headings in a logical way

Time for more coffee I reckon...

[caveman]

Been there, done that. :P