Forum Moderators: open
I wanted to have some information about free advertising on the net.
I have come across certain sites, which are offering this service, wherein you can place your organization's add for free.
How good this service is?
& can we except some rise in the trafiic from these sites or are these junk ones, just SPAM.
Thanx
Unless these directories are special in some way, forget any great amounts of traffic from them. Instead think of using them for 'presence' but not traffic.
People tend to overlook good quality niche directories IMO. It's not THAT hard to sort out the good ones from the scrapers and auto junk.
[edited by: caveman at 6:06 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
There maybe thousands of DATABASES, but a database doesn't make it a directory. Directories have certain characteristics and functions that set them apart from databases.
Databases are just structured sets of data held in a computer eg: (MS Access V2) (data is unprocessed info), and therefore isn't sorted. The info can be 'sorted' but has huge limitations on how it can be done, but databases don't search by any criteria.
Directories are basically books that are combined with search functions, the info is categorised and displays results according to instructions.
Directories don't use unprocessed info, Databases DO use unprocessed info. The info inside directories isn't 'raw' and can't be called data, as it's been processed by a human. That's why directories aren't data - bases.
Seems that these days so many people get caught up in how many bad directories there are, without doing the digging to unearth the good stuff.
There are, literally, thousands of very good niche directories on the Web. I am in twenty primary categories, and over 100 in total. We've developed a list of sites that are, or contain, quality niche directories. That list numbers over 200 sites. We're in roughly, oh, I dunno...1% of the Web.
[edited by: caveman at 6:04 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
Could you please give me list of those directories, which you have made, I am a new person in SEO field, it you could be good enough for me.
Thanks
In your place I might follow advice similar to etechsupport's. Find the good directories in your category (there is typically at least one good one). Then there are the mega directories like Yahoo! and lesser but still fine mega's. Try to stick to those directories that look like quality, hand edited directories.
Then perhaps try to get sites that you respect (and that are relevant to your site) to link to you. Ideally one way links to your site, but failing that, a gradual build up of reciprocal links - between respected sites - is still fine IMO.
And have a look around the Link Development [webmasterworld.com] forum; lots of great ideas over there. Don't overlook the Library in the Link Dev forum [webmasterworld.com] either. ;-)
[edited by: caveman at 5:50 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
As per my info, Google gives more importance to reciprocal link exchange.
Then why one way Linking.
Reciprocal links may look artificial, two sites that reach an 'agreement'.
One way links, if on topic, look more natural or organic, a genuine vote for a page. -Larry
It's much more vague these days IMO. If the BBC were to run a news story about my site and I was to link back to it to show my users, that may look artificial? :) OK, extreme example and clearly not what you were referring to, but I don't think the "one way links look more natural" point of view is quite accurate these days.
Let's face it - some "directories" will let any chump in and are by no strech of imagination, an indicator of quality.
EK, there are loads of directories out there - probably hundreds of thousands, even millions - ranging from the smallest obscure, niche category to the most broad and well known.
The problem is that most of them are utter crap.
So it is very time consuming to compile a list of directories for SEO purposes - you have to take into account a lot of factors including cost, type of link you get, PR, other links on the page, likelihood that the directory will be banned, etc....
It's for that reason that Caveman (and indeed most SEOs) won't share their lists in public forums. Forgetting the fact that they spent so long coming up with the list, there is also the issue that a mass influx of SEOs submitting sites (which, let's face it, won't all be of a high quality! ;)) could vastly reduce the quality of the directories.
Put it this way - why would I tell you where I drink if you are just going to turn up with your biker mates and piss on the bar? No offence to bikers. ;)
At the top end of the SEO game having your own source of quality links is one of the last remaining things you can do for a competitive edge mainly because a large part of the knowledge required to be an SEO is freely available on forums such as this. Some things need to be kept secret and you really need to work those things out for yourself. :)
MG
To compile a list that big, whoever would have to research, look for thousands of directories and it would take forever to do. Plus, as you say, most of these directories are naff, so why compile a list of naff ones, it doesn't make any sense to do that.
How many thouands are we talking about here? 10, 20, 30'000? No one will go to that amount of effort, and not make the list public for some gain, and gain is usually money! That's just human nature....
[edited by: caveman at 5:53 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
1,460,000,000 results. By no means conclusive, but certainly suggests more than a few hundred directories. ;)
So it is very time consuming to compile a list of directories for SEO purposes - you have to take into account a lot of factors including cost, type of link you get, PR, other links on the page, likelihood that the directory will be banned, etc. ... It's for that reason that ... most SEOs ... won't share their lists in public forums. Forgetting the fact that they spent so long coming up with the list, there is also the issue that a mass influx of SEOs submitting sites (which, let's face it, won't all be of a high quality! ;)) could vastly reduce the quality of the directories.
Marketing Guy cuts to the chase and makes things just about as clear as they can be made.
... most of these directories are naff, so why compile a list of naff ones, it doesn't make any sense to do that.
It makes all the sense in the world to work hard and understanding the categories one operates in, and keep a clear record of the sites we value (and why we value them). The point is to separate the wheat from the chaf. By recording our research, it makes it easy for anyone involved with the business to quickly access important information without wasting any time.
maccas, thanks for pulling out that WebmasterWorld link.
[edited by: caveman at 5:54 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
Maybe 1 billion pages, but not a billion directories or even 100'000 come to that or even 3000. Showing me a url from Google doesn't convince me or prove anything. All it proves is that people spam Google with their many different directory page urls.
I know off hand and have 2 large directory lists, which are pretty well known, and they don't list thousands of directories. Apart from wading through millions of results pages and finding 10 free ones here and there, I don't believe anyone holds a list of 100'000 + directories - not even made public on a website. Someone would have found it long ago, and the nature of the web, you can bet someone would make it publicly available.
I personally compiled a list of 100+ directories, and that took some effort and many hours of research doing it, so you aren't going to convince me that someone has put a list of 1000's together - no way.
[edited by: caveman at 5:56 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
I'd bet that at least a few senior members here own and operate more directories (or have done in the past) than most of us have on our private lists! ;)
If you took any category in DMOZ, it would be safe to say there are at least of handfull of (decent) niche directories for that subject, with the numbers increasing as you look at more top level generic categories. Do the math, then add all the generic DMOZ style directories out there. Then add all the sites that have elaborate "resources" sections (non-reciprocal), all the obscure non-profits, the local and national govenment stuff, the hobby sites, the sites that will simply list yours if you ask them nicely....
A "directory" list doesn't need to contain sites that conform to the DMOZ / Yahoo style directory model - I think the loose definition in terms of a "SEO directory list" will be "relevant, quality sites that accept link submissions". Yes, these are usually "directories" as people generally view them, but don't necessary have to be.
In terms of SEO a directory just needs to be a source of a link which isn't crap and doesn't require a reciprocal link (or other work, such as press releases, articles, sleeping with the ugly daughter of a directory owner, etc).
I have a directory. It's pretty good. But I don't respond to emails so it's probably not on any list. ;)
MG
[edited by: caveman at 5:57 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
I have come across certain sites, which are offering this service, wherein you can place your organization's add for free.How good this service is?
& can we except some rise in the trafiic from these sites or are these junk ones, just SPAM.
[edited by: caveman at 5:59 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
Your original question seemed to refer more to 'free traffic' so let's start there.
Free Traffic
For the most part, free traffic on the Web isn't worth much anymore. Many/most sites offering this are just free for all link farms and the issue is, while their linking to you will not likely cause any problem, linking back to them can get you in trouble. Your links out to other sites say something about who you are to the search engines. Linking to clusters of sites designed purely to get some free traffic or boost inbound links is probably not worth the risk.
There are a few more 'below the radar' options, but I personally stay away from them for the reasons noted above. If you get caught, you're gonna be in some trouble for a while.
Reciprocal Links
As noted above, this is simply the practice of exchanging links with other sites. It can work, but a few caveats.
For the most part, you won't get much traffic from this, because reciprocal links tend to be buried on "links" pages at most sites, and those pages tend not to get much traffic.
Also, keep in mind that the practice is more to boost a site's link popularity in the search engines, to help the site rank better in the organic SERP's. But that sort of thing is increasingly being discounted by the search engines, some more than others.
Relavant Partnerships
Possibly the best you can do in the realm of "free" is to partner with sites that have nothing to lose, something to gain, and are relavant to your site.
For example, if you have a site that sells widgets but doesn't provide widget services, and there's another site out there that provides widget services but doesn't sell widgets, then a link partnership makes perfect sense, and you'll have a better chance of seeing the links placed in prominent positions that generate traffic. In such a case, each of you will be providing a service to site visitors by linking to outside resources that are complementary and potentially useful to your site visitors.
The more you understand your market, the mindset of your users, and the value of taking a 'win win' approach in partnering with other sites, the more successful you're likely to be.
[edited by: caveman at 6:00 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
Have a look at this thread I did a while back on Search Engine Watch (I assume a link is OK?) - Life After SEO - Traditional Marketing As Part Of Your SEM Campaign [forums.searchenginewatch.com]
A simple banner exchange with a good site can be as beneficial as free search engine traffic. I have had a small graphical advert exchange in place with a related site for over 3 years. Since then, my site has gone from 1k visits per month to 75k visits per month, but the banner exchange link is still in my top 20 referrers, despite good rankings across the big 3 SE's.
MG
[edited by: caveman at 6:01 pm (utc) on Nov. 22, 2005]
Give you an example now. I was searching for imdb (internet movie database) and used Yahoo.co.uk to find it. Do you know, I ignored every single ad infront of me, as I was more interested in finding info on my dvd, than viewing some advert. Infact, I even ignored the 'movie' PPC ads everywhere.
And I bet, I wasn't the only one either. How many more targeted movie surfers ignored those movie ads that day? Makes you wonder doesn't it. But then again I wasn't looking (did not want movie ads) for PPC adverts at that time. So that proves that even PPC text adverts failed that day, and it also proves that advertising can't force someone to even view something, if they don't want to.
Can anybody force me to buy something? Nope. But you can makes something attractive, so that it catches my attention. That is what advertising is about. And that's what you need to do to win (in a sense).
Do you know, I ignored every single ad infront of me, as I was more interested in finding info on my dvd, than viewing some advert.
That's lovely. Google has $40 million in revenue to account for yesterday alone that says you're not indicative of the average internet user.
So that proves that even PPC text adverts failed that day
Hasty Generalization. Your sample size (of one person, yourself) is not large enough to accurately support your premise.
Each new advert idea/technology that's invented claims to use AIDA to best advantage, but if you look closely at them, advert designs can be taken apart to show the lack of benefit. I haven't seen anything that beats the PPC model and even that has disadvantages.
I personally ignore banner ads as they don't interest me anymore, and I find them very intrusive, all the flashing and bright colours, the free trial self-designed banner efforts made by amateurs - I'm sure you know the kind of thing. Not good if you annoy potential consumers by using naff looking banners, the idea is to attract clickthrough not drive it away.
Text links don't give any hassle in that way, and they look more professional. Problem is there are very few places that give away quality cheap enhanced ad space.
I can't see the majors doing that anytime soon, so it would need an outsider to offer that.
Does advertising work? I bet most of it fails..... I ignored every single ad infront of me ....
And I bet, I wasn't the only one either.
Easy bet, it is with certainty true that most people ignore most ads most of the time, but that doesn't mean they fail.
Let's say you are in a majority of between 95% and 98% who ignore the ads on a search of that sort. That leaves between 2% and 5% who click on them, a perfectly acceptable percentage which can deliver profit to the advertiser.
If someone running a ppc ad online was getting clicks from someone making a specific search with a spefic aim in mind such as you describe, then the chances are they would be gettng loads of poorly qualified leads - then the ad is a failure.
You were not searching with a view to spending money, so you did just as they hoped you would and cost them nothing. Successful advertising I'd say.
You're correct - I wasn't looking to spend, as I was seeking information, but imdb isn't classed as a shopping portal anyway so.....
People aren't going there to buy videos, imdb doesn't sell 'movie products', and is why the ads placed on imdb won't be as successful as if Amazon targeted retail stores instead. Amazon does well because of it's long established branding. They also know that there's a fair chance their ads will be missed/ignored, in favour of imdb's info.
You stick a lesser brand on imdb and try raking in the cash that Amazon gets. But your 2% to 5% projection of potential clickthroughs doesn't seem high enough, and certainly isn't why Amazon use imdb.
So you think Amazon's ad being on imdb was successful? Why?, it's just that I never bought anything and I'm trying to work out what amazon has gained from my visit. I get the feeling that many think that just because an advert is served, that by doing so will magically produce sales. So many ads fail because they aren't targeted effectively enough, or don't get people's attention or from lack of monitoring even.
Is that Amazon ad that y'all were discussing essentially a free ad, at least until someone clicks on it? Maybe sometimes low click thru's are actually GOOD for the advertiser? :o
Are free banner exchanges worthwhile - not free-for-all link exchanges mind you, but for example, just a couple sites tradinng banner ads. Would that better than trading text links these days, given the worries over reciprocal linking.
What other clever ways are there to get free advertising?
I would say link exchanges are the best bet - BUT, instead of doing this when a site is young and have it struggle to reach critical mass, why not wait until site is established and doing well, then the link thing should be easier to do.
Amazon a free advert ye? You think Amazon isn't paying imdb then? Well, I suppose it could be an Amazon affiliate advert, but imdb is such an established top site, they must be raking in the cash without affiliate schemes... Na, imdb are mega huge hehe, they surely have a way of making the cash. The problem with low clickthrough is lack of visitors, don't forget a certain percentage is necessary to convert to sales so that's got to be a big priority with imdb - their server costs must be unreal, that's got to be paid for.
Banner exchanges..... don't get me started on them lol. Great if you want to waste time, clicking to get clicks, no thank you he.
I think all this worry about text link site banning stuff is just a big wind up started by someone. Look at it sensibly, how would Google make ends meet if everybody is scared to buy links. hmmm, I can't see sites getting banned for buying a targeted link.
This is the problem with the world and the media. Someone says something unusual, but that's close to people's hearts and it sets a panic in motion. The media does this all the time, some story about beer being bad for you and people keeling over - oh please lol. This link/site banning thing is just some bad joke is all.
What other clever ways are there to get free advertising?
Yep, what you do is think of an idea that nobody is doing, build it into a portal or some other service, send out a press release and people will link to you by the ton, well, something like that anyway.
It facinates me and makes me cringe every time when people think there's some secret marketing trick that will get millions of visitors to websites for ever and ever. I assure you these free tricks are nothing more than inventing something that removes effort from people's lives. Do that and you can write your own ticket, except the hard bit is thinking and researching that idea.
People will always want the easy way out, cos some dude did it and made $15k overnight in his bedroom lol.
Seriously though, the only way of making it is through hard work and sacrifice, oh and that 1 idea. Sorry, but I can't answer that for you, except to advise that you start off with something low risk, make that pay off, then think of something else etc etc.
Keep repeating that process and one day, it may pay off. Google did it with pay per click, ok it's not that easy, as they probably had an entire university involved in that project, but the idea is simple enough.
Get something great going and offer some of that for free!
