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To META or not to META...

...that is my question

         

mivox

11:38 pm on May 17, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I've heard so mych about SE's ignoring the meta keywords tag, I'm seriously considering leaving it out of a major site redesign I'm working on...

Advisable? Indifferent? Bad idea?

And, even more radically, I'm flirting with the idea of leaving out the meta description tag too... Relying on just page titles and content for my rankings.

Bad Idea? Am I asking to get my rankings tanked here? It probably wouldn't matter much with Google, but what about the others?

I admit, I'm lazy, and don't want to take the time to re-write all these tags for over 100 pages, one by one...

georged

11:44 pm on May 17, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Edited to remove post because I didn't read the question properly.

drbill

11:55 pm on May 17, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Not sure what will happen... I would add them just incase. but as of late I am finding more and more engines ignoring them...

mivox

12:01 am on May 18, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I'm thinking I'll dump the keywords meta, and keep the description... except for Google and Looksmart's partners, everyone seems to still use the description tag for their search results, if not for their ranking. But I don't think any of the *big* SEs are still using the keywords tag for any significant part of their ranking algo, are they? As in: AV, Ink, Excite, Fast, & Google

DaveAtIFG

12:37 am on May 18, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I'm becoming convinced that whether the keyword or description metas are used is incidental on some (possibly most) engines. My suspicion is that pages are evaluated for KW density in the body AND for the page overall, and the ranking is based on the values for both densities. (The metas can be used to adjust the overall density.) I suspect this because I've seen top ranked pages both with and without either or both metas. My own experiments with not using either or both metas, with no other changes to the page, invariably resulted in lower rankings.

mivox

1:47 am on May 18, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



*sigh* So there's no real way I can get out of this and still be able to say "I was doin' my best, boss"...?

One of my problems is that we have 2-5 pages addressing different aspects of the same topics... all of these pages could reasonably use the same keywords, but I wouldn't want the SEs sniffing out the duplicate keywords tags and penalizing me (even if all pages had very unique content and description/title tags). Then again, I don't want to bore myself trying to come up with 10 or so sets of 5 unique keyword tags for each keyword set... does that make sense?

Is this something I should worry about, or can I safely cut & paste my keywords in cases like this?

Woz

2:49 am on May 18, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



My attitude on this has always been that whilst some of the "majors" are not utilising meta tags at the moment, they may in the future. Also, a lot of the "minor" engines still rely on metatags, and who knows which of them will turn into the next "major". So I always keep them in as a kind of insurance policy.

Onya
Woz

Black Knight

3:17 am on May 18, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I haven't seen any evidence of any SE actually penalising pages that have the standard keywords and description meta tags, and several of the smaller or less advanced engines still pay them good attention, so I still use them.

Be careful not to repeat keywords, or at least, not too closely together, within a single tag.

Also, many SEOs massively overload their meta keywords - I recommend keeping it to a max of around 150 characters unless you a targeting a specific engine that you know wants more.

Same goes for the description, make it have 'click appeal' and be short enough not to get cropped by any of the major engines. The description is mainly of use to persuade the visitor that yours is the best answer to his query anyway. A really good description will get you more clicks than sites ranked just above you if you can't get a top slot.

DaveAtIFG

5:30 am on May 18, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>Is this something I should worry about, or can I safely cut & paste my keywords in cases like this?

I've had pretty good luck with using nearly identical metas across all pages on a smaller site, focused on one topic. It seems to reenforce the theme.

The descriptions may read, "Dave's Widgets - Home page" and "Dave's Widgets - Order Page," etc.

The KWs in the meta for each page must appear in the content on the page or they're considered spam on most SEs. I'd suggest cut, paste and edit... I'm lazy! I delete KWs that don't appear in the content and add others that do appear, just pick 'em out of the content, not strain my brain trying to "build a list." Another approach is to retain the identical KW list on all pages and add some of the KWs you lack in the content area, into alt tags on the page.

mivox

8:33 pm on May 18, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Be careful not to repeat keywords, or at least, not too closely together, within a single tag

Here's where I always start tripping up... say I have a page about solar panels (which I do). Here's what I have for keywords:

<meta name="keywords" content="solar power, photovoltaic, solar panels, alternative energy, home power, solar electricity, photovoltaics, PV panels, solar power system, renewable energy">

Now, the word "solar" is repeated, as are "power" "energy" and "panels"... but they're all in separate key phrases. I don't want to just stick single words in the tag, like "solar, panel, energy, power, alternative, renewable", because besides "solar" they're all too general.

I know I'm not going to get banned for it, because my old metas look like that... but is using two word keyphrases with repeating single words within them asking for trouble, rankings wise?

agerhart

8:39 pm on May 18, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have heard that this can be walking on thin ice with some......but I have not problems personally with this.

Black Knight

7:47 pm on May 19, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



> "solar power, photovoltaic, solar panels, alternative energy, home power, solar electricity, photovoltaics, PV panels, solar power system, renewable energy"

You can replace the first "solar power" with the later "solar power system" for a start - exact matches just check that the words are together, other words are allowed to be before and after without causing any weakening or penalty.

"solar power sytem" contains an exact match for "solar power" and for "power system".

Although you may sacrifice exact matching you can also keep words close together though not quite consecutive and rank well for many more varieties of phrases:

"alternative solar power energy systems" contains non-exact but still powerful matching for "alternative energy" (only two words between), for "solar power systems" and for "solar energy" too. By making strings that contain multiple phrases by just skipping one or two words you'll do far better (on average) than narrowing your focus to just a few exact phrase matches.

If you find that exact phrase matching is needed for the more competitive phrases then you can always make a couple of additional pages for those phrases alone.

Edited by: Black_Knight

mivox

10:41 pm on May 19, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Very interesting.... I may fall asleep while re-tweaking my keywords tags, but that sounds like a great strategy, and one I definitely hadn't thought of. Most of the competitiors' rankings seem to be link and age driven. They've been around much longer than us, and so everyone in the field links to them first. Very "clannish" field with a lot of ranking competition from .gov and .org domains that really can't be pushed aside...