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You've probably all heard the following questions a million times. I've searched the forums but not found current, clear info on these, so please excuse me.
Keyword density is one of the greyer areas to me. Various KW checking tools return different percentages for keyword density on the same page. Any consensus on which tools are likely to give density figures close to those that the search engines would see for a page? Ive seen list of tools, and tried dozens, but without any hint about which give the most SE-relevant results I'm still shooting in the dark.
Also, do you think keyword density should be calculated as a percentage of *all* words, including stop-words, or should stop-words be taken out before the calculation. Some tools give you the option to do either, so no hint there... Different tools even give me different counts for the total number of words on our pages too, so I'm having a really hard time knowing who looks at what when calculating total word count or KW density!
Another question: do occurrences in the title tag count towards on-page KW density? I've always assumed keyword and description metas aren't counted, but the title...?
For that matter, what about keywords in alt text... is that counted as part of the KW density? What exactly is counted and what isn't?
I read a comment somewhere: "I tend to take a look at what the densities are on the sites that currently rank well...". That makes perfect sense, but in Google, for example, how can you know how much the ranking is due to KW density and how much to PR, backlinks etc etc.
I know it's is also widely debated how much weight the SEs give to keyword density these days, but I might as well try to get it right... just in case!
As you can probably tell, I'm a little bewildered, and I'm probably asking for an SEO panacea without meaning to.
Thanks very much in advance for any tips.
1) If one tool says the keyword density on a winning page is 3.8 and another tool tells you its 4.2 ... who cares. Its a winning page! Provided you always use the same tool with the same settings ... then what difference does it make? Its all relative.
2) I believe Google compares keyword density to your own site rather than others. Now I know this will be hotly debated ... but I've seen sites with 6% density in the number one spot and others with 1.2% in the number one spot!
3) There is no question that incoming links count for a great deal. One of my competitors who is number one for one of our big keyword phrases (3 words) ... doesn't even have the phrase on their page anymore since they overhauled their site 8 months ago.
However, the vast majority of their incoming links include that 3 keyword phrase ... so there you go!
do occurrences in the title tag count towards on-page KW density?
Yes.
what about keywords in alt text.
I honestly don't think so, but I do think it has at least "some weight".
I tend to take a look at what the densities are on the sites that currently rank well
Personally, I don't think this will help in the least. As I said, I am almost convinced that it is your own kwd that Google compares any new pages to.
Writing style, sentence length, title, headings and relative placement of keywords to the subject matter are all important factors. You just have to find what works for your site!
I have found that writing as naturally as possible works for me and gets almost all of my pages "close" to the top.
I know it's is also widely debated how much weight the SEs give to keyword density these days, but I might as well try to get it right... just in case!
With all things being equal and provided you do not employ any tactics which Google frowns upon, I think it is a major part of Googles' ranking procedure!
Many here will poo poo the above and that is their right. I can only tell you what has worked for me.
a) Keep your site clean.
b) Write naturally.
c) Don't go overboard with keyword density. Keep it as natural as possible.
d) Be sure you are telling the SE's what your page is about, being certain that both your title and description are concise.
Good luck! It really isn't as difficult as some make it seem. Just give it your best shot!
Oh ... one page won't do the trick! If you write a new page using the above as a guideline, chances are it won't work. You need to create or recreate (consitently) from the get go ... on all pages.
It has been my experience that all your pages have to fit the above criteria ... and it really helps if there is some sort of theme to your site which ties it all together.
That's my best advice regarding keyword density and I hope it helps. I use a kwd analyser only to cross check myself ... not competitor sites. That is a sure fire way to drive yourself crazy because there are too many factors involved.
I do it only to make sure I haven't gone to town on keywords. When you write naturally, its easy to do! I use the same analyzer all the time with the same settings and yes, I include stop words.
Having said all that, if you write good content with only your customer in mind and get one good incoming link ... that can do the trick too! :)
Thanks very much for a comprehensive reply!
If one tool says the keyword density on a winning page is 3.8 and another tool tells you its 4.2 ... who cares. Its a winning page! Provided you always use the same tool with the same settings ... then what difference does it make? Its all relative.That's sensible, and I'll certainly apply that once I have a few things straight in my mind.
I believe Google compares keyword density to your own site rather than others...I'm not sure I understand quite what you mean here.
As for the key words in alt test counting in density...
I honestly don't think so, but I do think it has at least "some weight".That surprises me: as Google shows alt text in the text version of the cached page, and if someone chooses to disable images in their browser the alt text becomes visible content... Anyone else like to address this bit?
Again I'm not clear about the comparing to yr own keyword thing...I tend to take a look at what the densities are on the sites that currently rank wellPersonally, I don't think this will help in the least. As I said, I am almost convinced that it is your own kwd that Google compares any new pages to.
We have a well established, medium-sized site that ranks top 5 in most SEs for most of our top KWs. We're now at the stage where every bit of "edge" counts. We're building links etc, but we also need to get an advantage with the KW aspect of our optimisation. That's why I have to analyse competitors.
Writing style, sentence length, title, headings and relative placement of keywords to the subject matter are all important factors. You just have to find what works for your site!Sound advice. I'm slowly getting to grips with these aspects. I've only been doing SEO for the company for two or three months, but the web designer is a co-operative chap who is taking all these factors on board.
I have found that writing as naturally as possible works for me and gets almost all of my pages "close" to the top.That's something I plan to address. I don't think we have enough body text content.
Thanks again for the response. Good food for thought :)
Any other contributions appreciated...
I believe Google compares keyword density to your own site rather than others.
Its a difficult concept to grasp, but it is my belief that the keyword density in all the pages of your site ... is the yard stick used to judge your site with regards to keyword density as a whole and across your site.
I believe it is a "theme" based algo ... so to speak. I'm not sure I can explain exactly what I mean clearly enough, because I haven't tested the "theory" on purpose. It has happened by accident and when fiddled with ... it worked! So bare with me.
KWD and other "on page factors" are important across all pages. If the KWD on your index page is 4.0 and KWD (for the same topic) on a second level page is 2.0 and KWD on a third level page is 1.0, then you should be safe.
However, If KWD for that topic is 1.0 on your index, 2.0 on second level page and 4.0 on third level page (which happens to be the important page) ... then you may be in trouble. (These are all arbitrary percentages by the way!)
Once again, it is only a theory ... but I believe everything relates back to your index and second level pages in keeping with a theme.
it is my firm belief that Google allows you to have one or two "grab" pages and the rest have to be "sell" pages. By that I mean, "getting the customer's attention" with the higher KWD ... but you have to provide good solid content on the "sell" page. No keyword stuffing, just content without any BS!
As I said, its only a theory and I'm sure many of the gurus here will shoot it down, but what can I say. It has worked for me!
Yep, that seems quite believable as algo's are getting more sophisticated, and I'm familiar with theming, so I get that bit.
I'll certainly take a fresh look at the internal KW situation across the site.
I still can't shake off the traditional dogma about competitive keyword density relative to other sites. That "suss the keyword density of the top ranking sites and then make yours higher by a fraction of a millimetre" thinking.
I think I'll need a bit more convincing that I can safely discard that.
More opinions please, guys?
