Are some keywords simply unbeatable?

[epptom]

Is it reasonable to think a new site can obtain a top ten ranking against competing sites that have tens of thousands of recip. links?

In other terms, if I'm creating a site for "widgets", and the first 20 pages returned for "widgets" on Google have 10,000+ links pointing to them, will NO amount of SEO move the new site into the top ranks, no matter what the content is?

Has anyone seen a coup like this before? Are some keywords and search phrases sealed off from competition due to total link dominance?

[PFOnline]

Well, it's difficult but not impossible.

Say for example you somehow manage to acquire 5000 links, (half of what they have.)

If these 5000 links have better anchor text and are links from higher page ranked sites than the 10,000 link site, its feasible to think you could actually surpass the 10,000 link site, with only 5000 links.

[shady]

I would add to this, that there are many high profile companies (certainly in the UK) who appear to pay no attention to SEO.

They do have the headstart of large numbers of non-reciprocal links, simply due to their status, but do not necessarily take advantage of them as they should.

I have discussed an example of this, only today with a collegue of mine. He has made the number one position on google for a company name specific search for an enormous chain.

He only lists approximately 10% of the inward links that they do, and he has PR5 compared to their PR7.

A real life David and Goliath story (except that Goliath actually pays David in this case) :-)

[epptom]

5,000 links to a PR7 seems like a high mountain to climb (granted you don't get something for nothing) ;-) 10,000 links seems like a pipe dream. I'll look through the forums on ideas on how to generate this many links... I love David and Goliath stories!

[Marcia]

epptom, the best and simplest strategy is to go after multiple dozens or more of less competitive keyword phrases. Three and four word phrases are generally very targeted and good for conversion, so go for those if it's an area you're personally motivated for, and let time tell.

Everyone is different; I would never personally care to have to go after 5K links, and tend to steer clear of heavily "black hat" markets because I choose not to go that route. But sometimes it isn't even necessary to have 5K links or high PR to make an acceptible profit from a site.

[martinibuster]

Is it reasonable to think a new site can obtain a top ten ranking against competing sites that have tens of thousands of recip. links?

Not necessarily. If links are what are keeping them there, and they have questionable content then being on the first page is fine.

If you have a clickable title etc., then you're fine.

If they have great content then you've got a problem.

[shady]

I agree totally with Marcia!

My strategy has always been to target the actual "product names" rather than the generic term. I guess this is mainly because I do not have a high success at competitive phrases, sadly!

The latest site I have setup, is an affiliate site with 20,000 products. It is database driven, but using a few "tricks" I have learned, it is very SE friendly.

It is receiving over 1000 visitors on most days after a comparitively short time live.

My hat goes off to the freshbot!

[davewray]

Epptom...Yes, it is possible. I am proof. Through the valuable resources and posts here at Webmasterworld I took my site from scratch (just starting) to #10 in just 8 months for a keyphrase in Google that returns 15 million results. My competition all had at least 10,000 links pointing to them while I only had 350. So yes, it is possible...and very satisfying! :)

Dave.

<edit> I just wanted to add that I used Brett's 12 month's to have a successful site with Google post and stayed away from spammy techniques...</edit>