seriously confused how to master MSN

I have tried everything. Now out on a limb

[Skylo]

Hi everyone. MSN is now becoming a problem area for me. They are obviously someone that you would want to rank well with. Now I have tweaked my site perfectly for google. I am number 1 for my for my search term and my traffic has never been better. Now I know that Algo's differ but I am seriously confused how to master MSN. My site does not list in their top 100 for my keyphrase.

Is anyone else is stumped, hopefully we can put our heads together on this one. I have a few issues I would like to discuss with others. Please come on in:)

[tigger]

So I presume you've not submitted your site to Looksmart? Have you paid for any pages with Inktomi?

[Skylo]

I have submitted my site to looksmart long ago, I am isted as 14th in their results and I list 4th in BOW search results by INK.....

[Skylo]

......and I haven't paid for any pages on INK. What do you think.

[tigger]

It really depends on how competitive your market is, let's face it MSN Inktomi listings are at the bottom of the pile so check out your market and if you can get some good keywords in using Inktomi then pay for a few

One of the main advantages in paying will mean 48hr crawls so you can tweak away until you get key words ranking well

[Skylo]

I really am still stumped. If I pay for listings on INK that will mean that I will be using the services that MSN incorporates namely Looksmart, PFI for inktomi and PPC through Overture. What solution do you possibly see.

Thanks Tigger, and sorry for being like an inquisitive child but your input is greatly valued by me thanks:)

[tigger]

It depends how competitive your market is and how much you want to send

I get a good return from MSN so a good listings should pull in traffic, after all it's the only alternative to google

Pay Looksmart for a directory listing
Use Overture for competitive terms, that Ink pages will be lost on
Use Inktomi for less competitive terms that you stand a chance of getting your results in the top ten

[mansterfred]

We use all the areas OV/Look$/and Ink.

Our biggest increase came when we did 2 things:

1) We submitted 10 optimized pages to Ink
2) We asked Looksmart to rewrite our listing. Oddly enough they know how to write them.

MSN is now getting us some really nice traffic.

[Skylo]

So then just to clarify, does the forum then think that even though inktomi crawls our site more than google does, I should submit a whole bunch of pages to INK and can I submit the same pages that I did to looksmart?

[mansterfred]

Just speaking for me..

We use looksmart for only our main page, with keywords and a budget. We use Ink for our backfill. I can tell you Ink never got past our first page until we paid for it. Or perhaps they did, but just maybe it is taken more serious when it is paid for.

[Skylo]

Yeah mansterfred, I think that INK probablydoes take a more serious stance once you pay. According to our nettracker slurp is constantly running through our pages. So I guess what I should do is index my site properly with INK.

Thanks guys you have been a great help. I would still like to see others opinions.
Cheers:)

[JeremyL]

From what I can see, if you want in MSN without being in Looksmart, you have to use spam tactics in Ink. But thats just what ive seen so I have stopped even trying with them.

[Skylo]

could the answer possibly be that I am not paying msn directly to be listed. I mean I pay for their services through Looksmart and Overture, but maybe I need to be using them directly. Agree? Maybe?

[tigger]

No you don't pay MSN, they use looksmart/overture/ink so you pay them

[Skylo]

Yeah thought so tigger, have you and everyone received the small business listings update from looksmart, what do you think?

[sem4u]

I think you should update your LookSmart listing so that you can put as many keywords in the description as possible. Also try to add a keyphrase in the title. We did this after the company name and it worked a treat :)

[coconutz]

>>We asked Looksmart to rewrite our listing.

Did you have to pay to update your description?

[Skylo]

Hi guys I have gone away and come back now with another question just general on SEO. I read somewhere that using an FAQ and a newsletter was a good way of putting a whole bunch of key terms in to improve ones ranking. Wat I want to konw is this necessary or does Googles algo favour an FAQ and newsletter as they benefit the client?

[rogerd]

I don't think there's anything magic about FAQs and newsletters, Skylo - what works is content, and they are two ways to get additional content on a site. Naturally, they provide a chance to add keyword-rich text.

[Skylo]

But Roegerd, I am not questioning your opinion but don't you think that at least a newsletter would be benefitting your potential/clients by feeding them content rich info without them coming to your site(once they have signed up of course). I would think that there is a possibility that Google would consider this in their Algo?

Thanks for the input:)

[southpaw12]

Skylo,

There is a back-door into MSN and Looksmart. Don't pay Looksmart's fee - you don't need to!

Have you tried submiting to Zeal.com? I launched my site on March 10, submitted to Zeal the same day and was listed within 24 hours. MSN had my site listed in the #1 spot within 72 hours. Looksmart listed me at #1 the next day. I now have multiple keywords ranked in the top 10 in Zeal, MSN and Looksmart.

You can submit for free to Zeal, but there is a test you have to pass (I'm not kidding). It is not a difficult test, but it might take you a few tries to pass. Check out the Zeal.com website for the guidelines.

This is a legitimate submission method - no tricks.

Good luck with your site!

[dwilson]

Southpaw, I have used Zeal to good effect too. But only for non-commercial stuff. Some of the listings I would like in their are for pages that aren't themselves commercial but belong in commercial categories. No good. But for the non-commercial categories the Zeal listing has gotten me more Looksmart/MSN traffic than has come from Google.

[PerStrand]

If you have a web page which is optimized, then use inktomi.
If not use PPC then use Overture. If the bidding is to high use use Looksmart

[x3nos]

Agree w/mansterfred . . .

Overture is good fill for the holes or while waiting to be indexed and a good backup to really push traffic in hard times.

Looksmart is agreeably a pain in the ***, but good to put up main pages.

And Inktomi, well now is the real meat of the matter. For a time the importance of Ink has been debated, but has proven itself with renewed deals with MSN and partner sites. Well optimized pages in the backfill (second and third level pages) work well. I know as we once had our sites in Inktomi and Looksmart, and let it fall out to see what would happen ... sure thing we got eaten up and spit out. Now repeating strategy as above and very positive this is the key. Just watch out to get all data in Looksmart correct first time through, because those fees get hefty when making changes.

Hope this helps reinforce the general consensus, which I think I have reiterated.

x3nos

[chinadu]

never listed in looksmart or overture, paid INK listing has been able to get my site in top 6 position of MSN on a few phases.

[Skylo]

Just tocome back with a progress report. We have added to our strategy paid listings in Inktomi and now see some of the sites have climbed the proverbial ladder with the greatest of ease. Still have problems with some sites though. So considering my success on some fronts with the Ink submission, I think it might be advisable to start a clean slate with the sites that aren't doing well. I mean cancel all their payments, tweak them a bit and then re-submit.

Well yet another problem of mine solved here. This forum is the best place on the net by leaps and bounds;)

Thanks for the input

[TWhalen]

I get great results in MSN exclusively through paid inclusion at Inktomi (through Position Tech).

At least for my keywords, my Inktomi listings are always high in the SERPS on MSN.

I'd try there if nothing else seems to be working for you.

[x3nos]

skylo: ditto on the progress report. our sites are back in and wow the phones are ringing off the hook! (<-- metaphor for my email inbox is full)

Inktomi is very, very, very important. It is well worth the money to include every level of pages as well as the index too. I have seen under some terms different pages on the same root show up in 1st SERPs. Good Stuff . . . very, very, very important.

[marcs]

sem4u: where/how does one update Looksmart listing info?

Sounds like could help one of our sites a fair bit. Can't seem to find that option on their site.

[iwyrobi]

I just add my site to zeal community, and my site liste #1 for bali furniture and bali art in msn search