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Just checking up on the competition in the SERP's and noticed something I haven't seen before.
It was a SEO site specialising in a specific industry.
ie www.web-based-widgets.com
The content (only about 10 pages in total) had a "widgets" twist but it was a blatantly a SEO site (just taking the angle of how SEO can help the "widget" industry).
I followed a link to their other site, another SEO site, but one that focused on the customers of the "widget" industry and offering the same services and citing the same examples of how their clients could save money.
On the whole they looked like a fairly decent SEO sites - to the point and not making any outrageous claims.
But my concern that is the SEO is targeting a specific industry.
Now, I know all of you would say, "but they guys just targetting a niche market, thats fair business" and I would agree.
My point is if this is the way that SEO is going, then will we see all industries eventually targetted by SEOs?
Will we see the SERP's for any major keywords saturated with SEO sites dedicated to that industry (or more likely to have a site dedicated to that industry....)?
I cant see what the SE's could do about it either. As long as the SEO site is not spamming and has content related to keywords, then it's fair game really? The only solution I could see would be to ban SEO sites completely, but that in itself is unfair, as SEOs have every right to promote their services.
I just thought id mention this and see what others thought.
Cheers
JOAT :)
It great to think that you can push any site, in any industry, targeting any market, to #1, on any keyword or keyphrase, because have a firm grasp of the medium and technology.
In reality however, inside knowledge of specific industries and markets is where your best work is going to be.
If you know nothing about a particular industry/market then you are not truly consulting -- but more of a stab in the dark.
Unique selling points -- like we have SEO'ed 20 company sites around the world in "flowers" (same as the potential client) is something they can relate to as well.
Not to mention the linking possibilities between them!
Firstly, you get a client - you dont have to compete with his or her competitors cos their not on the first page - you have to compete with other SEO's! :)
Next, what about the results for the users? If I search for web-based-widgets, I want to find web based widget sites, not SEO sites offering web based widget site optimisation.
I think in the next year or two, SEO is gonna become mass market like web design did a few years back...only the strong will survive! :)
Plus the SE's are gonna have to make a change, like split information, B2B and B2C services.
IMHO
JOAT :)
You could similarly apply it to an adult site targetting a specific industry.
'S** with a widget - h**d core widget s**'
and such like.
Most are in a variety of non-competing industries.
I develop a sub-site for each client consistent with their overall design. Each page of their primary site has a link at the bottom indicating "market strategy designed by..." (the theme of the sub-site).
So if, they are into "selling flowers" the sub-site is called Blossom Positioning, and contact information could be different from the primary companies contact info.
Competitors look at what competitors do...
and without interfering with the clients (your clients) markets, they now have a new revenue stream (referral fees) and everyone who is interested thinks it is a different company.
You work behind the scenes, with each company and those that are opened the alliances (between direct competitors) grow in ranked position (through linkage) and you are never out of work.
I agree to a certain extent, but as it is an online industry, then its in a grey area.
Personally im not too bothered about the site in question - its not competing on any of my keywords (in all honesty my site isnt really targetting any keywords; im just writing the content and letting the chips fall where they may).
The problem lies in if it escalates.
For example (this isnt my industry), the phrase "online dvd sales" my be targetted by sites selling dvds online.
It may also be searched for by users looking for dvds to buy online.
If a SEO company whips together a site specialising in online dvd sales promotions they could justifiably target that keyword, therefore not spam.
But then the user is not getting the results that they are searching for, so the results are no longer as relevant.
Another few SEOs jump on the bandwagon and soon the user is getting very few relevant results for that term. So they start searching for something else.
Rinse. Repeat as required.... :)
Im more convinced reading back thru these posts that SE's need to start offering users the ability to search for products, services, information, otherwise everyone will just end up competing with each other and the market will decline.
My 2c
JOAT :)
If however, an SEO does set-up a site for "online dvd sales" and they actually have "dvd's for sale online" then they are just another competitor.
In saying that... just because they know the medium and technology doesn't mean they will ever corner the market. Superior customer service and support takes care of this in the long run.
And if they don't have "dvd's for sale online" it's just spam and the markets will soon realize this and pass them by.
Being from a marketing background im a firm believer in the value of good customer service! :)
It had occured to me when i saw the site that there may be a kinda grey area for SEOs and just thought id get a few more views on it!
JOAT
However, what about this: Say the SEO company IS successful in attracting several new clients from the same industry using this method. How do they then reconcile the fact that they have clients competing against each other for the same keywords? I know we've had other threads about this, but really, can an SEO company hope to attract more than a couple of competing clients within the same industry? If I were a client I don't know if I'd be happy about it.
And here's another one: If I were a client within such an industry, I certainly wouldn't be happy if I employed an SEO company to boost my site within that sector, and yet the SEO's own listing continued to rank higher than mine. In that sense, this marketing strategy can only be a one-hit-wonder for the SEO, and given the amount of effort it will take them to target each industry you have to wonder if it would be worth it.
But, if a SEO promoted their services to individual companies in a specific industry, it is conceivable (and more than likely happening quite a lot) that they have many competing clients. How would the clients know?
The SEO doesnt have to publicise their clients. They can target them using conventional marketing techniques.
Question:
Any of the SEO's out there - have you ever had two different (competing) clients that youve optimised for the same keywords, because they were still the top choice of keywords?
Like I said before, Im from a marketing background and it seems to me if i was freelancing and had two clients that were competing with each other, I couldnt take them both on as there was a conflict of interests there. I realise SEO is a different kettle of fish altogether, so im just kinda curious as to what thoughts you all have on this.
I hope this can be taken in the light hearted discussion way that it is intended - i dont want to offend anyone, just inspire a bit of debate in a grey area! :)
JOAT
Say the SEO company IS successful in attracting several new clients from the same industry using this method. How do they then reconcile the fact that they have clients competing against each other for the same keywords? I know we've had other threads about this, but really, can an SEO company hope to attract more than a couple of competing clients within the same industry? If I were a client I don't know if I'd be happy about it.
Why not? Competition is good. And it's even better when you have a controlling interest with the competitor and they with you.
One marketing consideration that is missing from most of the online world is "comparative marketing". That is... using a competitors product to provide a consumer a baseline (comparison) in favouring your products based on "unique selling points".
In a controlled competitive environment, both competitor (using different products not same) to bolster the unique selling points of their product of the day, month, etc. If you're both doing this, both are far superior in online marketing, promotion and sales than most other businesses online in your industry.
Note: got to wonder how any competitor can compete in a retail storefront when your competitors products are sitting right next to yours?
Obviously there is a competitive advantage there somwhere's (must be a perspective thing) since you can walk into any shopping mall and find a variety of brands and competitive products, and they all sell... right?
If I were a client within such an industry, I certainly wouldn't be happy if I employed an SEO company to boost my site within that sector, and yet the SEO's own listing continued to rank higher than mine. In that sense, this marketing strategy can only be a one-hit-wonder for the SEO, and given the amount of effort it will take them to target each industry you have to wonder if it would be worth it.
Same as above... consider Wartmart, Kmart, Sears and any other large department stores are the offline SEO'ers, does it work?
It's all about unique selling points - no two products are completely identical and there are lots of keywords and keyphrases to target as well.
I don't see this as a problem...I've been looking at becoming a specialist since I started on the web...it always struck me as inevitable...it doesn't have to lead to a clash of interests as long as the specialisations are wide enough
if one company is the clear brand leader for SEO for blue widgets there is a problem...but if several companies compete to be brand leader for widgets in general then everyone is getting a better deal
I don't know how the rest of you did it, but before I first went freelance I took advice from everyone I knew who had successfully started a business...they almost all gave the same advice...don't try to be all things to all men, work out exactly what you can do better than anyone else and sell yourself for that and that alone
...don't try to be all things to all men!
Exactly!
I love making fun of JOAT nick.
A jack of all, is a master at none! ;)
Sorry again JOAT... it's a truism though.
Back to my initial point is that as a busines, a SEO is perfectly within their right to promote their services in whatever way they see fit.
Yes, a SEO can specialise in a particullar area, but isnt there an issue with similar clients overlapping?
JOAT :)
<added> lol....can i change my nick?</added>
Most client are happy for that too.
On specific search terms (expanded) then they should all be ranking differently if you have brought out their unique selling points correctly.
but isnt there an issue with similar clients overlapping?
Not at all.
Although the medium itself is different the same principles apply as in the real world.
Equal opportunity for equal paying clients.
An industry related magazine has similar issues.
But must distribute clients (competitors) throughtout their magazine showing equal concern for equally paid ads.
Although the web itself is but a toddler compared to its off-line counterparts... I tend to believe this medium is far superior than any other channel.
Another consideration -- two different SEO'ers competing with two clients of the same industry...
Client # 2 can't get ranked #1 on any keyword since his SEO'er isn't as capable.
Will he except this or go to SEO'er #1?
Client number may see this as an initial conflict of interest, but the rewards of two sites (uniquely) working together out perform and can broader their markets dramatically.
If client #1 can increase his monthly sales, do you really believe he would say no?
Blue widgets in London can only have one or two decent terms to optimise for. If you have ten clients all selling blue widgets in london, what can you do but optimise them all for the same keyword?
Sure, some might have truely USPs, but chances are that not many people will be searching for them, cos if they were, the competition would be on the bandwagon too.
Therefore you have to optimise your clients sites for the best terms you can, which will be the same terms (or about 90% similar terms).
OK, SEO's aside, how many of you work for an employer (fulltime, salary, etc) would work for your competition on the side? Do you think your employer would be pleased about this? Would there be a conflict of interests?
JOAT
I would rather that my clients filled up the top 10 results than anyone else on the general search terms, wouldn't you?
Client may be happy in the short term... got to wonder though what the SE user would think if clicked though to #1 and did not find want they were looking for, then #2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10...
I can guarantee one thing... "rubbish" would be a grow brand for this client!
If we look at this from the perspective of the search engines wishes and the searchers ability to find results that match their queries with choices amongst them so they can decide on where to click and once having done so where to buy or use etc. then I think every company or web site has a USP in that they are unique in presentation, personality, style, ability, customer service, add on services, information direction etc etc etc
A good SEO / Marketer should be able to handle this aspect.
Blue widgets in London can only have one or two decent terms to optimise for. If you have ten clients all selling blue widgets in london, what can you do but optimise them all for the same keyword?
Blue widget in London
Blue widgets in London
London Blue widgets
London Blue widget
Blue widget (anywhere else)
Blue widgets (anywhere else)
London widgets (any other color)
London widget (any other color)
Widget
Widgets
Discount widgets
widget downloads
A short list but You have 10 clients all wanting to be #1
Client #1 ranked 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.10 but on different keyphrases
Client #2 ranked same but in other positions for the same keyphrases
and so on.
Im gonna hold u to that! ;)
Its not about the client. They can do whatever they want and theres nothing that we can do about that. Of course theyll go for the money! :)
This thread has twisted and turned on lots of different issues! :)
My main standpoints:
a) By targetting industries by setting up a site and optimising it for industry keywords (web-based-widgets) is not an ethical business practice. I clouds the SERP's and is not good for the user.
b) By all means, a SEO should target specific sectors in order to specialise and avoid becoming <ahem> a jack of all trades </not a word>. Its a good biz strategy.
c) Taking on competing clients at the same time is a conflict of interests. You have to the best for your client - its only good customer service - you cant do that if your working for the competition as well. There's also a client confidentionality issue as well.
d) I want my nickname changed. And I feel that this is the most important issue of all and should be addressed immediately. :)
Just my opinion tho...could be wrong! What do I know im not the master of any trades.....;)
JOAT
fathom, I don't think you have understood my post.. errm I am not talking about any sort of trash here.. quite the opposite.. I am talking about quality
I do understand. But 1 - 10 ranked positions is not being user, visitor, or customer focused, but company focused (regardless of quality)
If you are at #1, why would you need to be at 5 or 8 or any other position.
Some people like windows and some like Macintosh... do you really believe by blocking out Mac's totally that MAC users will become window users, simply because you say - we are quality, we're rank 1 - 10?
What is the difference? :)
But for each term there will be a better ot worse search / competitor ratio. Who gets number 1 on the good terms and who gets number 10?
I could mean the difference between 10000 UV's and 2000 UV's per month. The minor phrases will only bring in a percentage of what the main terms do.
There are plenty of variations in keywords but only a few are searched for and only a few are worth targetting.
Each time you optimise a clients competitor you will be detracting from the number of visitors that he gets.
JOAT
(this could go on forever...im going for a cigarette..._
JOAT sometimes it is a mere matter of budget... I had one client that commented that another client (different target market, similar terms) had better positioning .. I did have to point out that the better positioned website also allowed a budget that was about 4 times larger.. if you get my drift.
Fathom - msg #17: I don't think your analogy is correct. The search engine itself would be the equivalant of the publishing house or magazine that has to distribute adverts (clients) throughout their publication equally. In your analogy, the SEO would be the same as the advertising agency that produces/places the ad - and you don't get advertising agencies taking major clients who compete in the same market.
excell - msg #17 >>I would rather that my clients filled up the top 10 results than anyone else on the general search terms, wouldn't you?<< You raise an interesting (hypothetical) situation where the SEO would effectively control the top ten positions for a given keyword. Who gets top billing? The client that pays the most? Do you think the SEs would appreciate a company effectively providing Pay for Placement with no money going to them? What if one client reneges on payment? Do you drop them? How do you get ten sites into the top ten positions on Google without risking cross-linking penalties? Seems like a can of worms to me.
fathom I think that when I say *clients* you are reading it as *client*.
yes I did believe that was what you meant. "client"
A good point about the hypothetical situation about dominating the top 10 positions; more eliquently put than I was able to do! ;)
>Client 1 ranks very well on multiple keyphrases
Client 2 ranks very well on a couple of keyphrases
Multiple keyphases may reap 10000 visitors a month and a couple of key phrase may reap 1000. Or vice versa.
You cant evenly balance the traffic your clients are getting, youve got to do the best for all of them (you need to maintain your profesional integrity). This will mean at some point targetting the same keywords for similar websites.
Fair enough you can base your level of work on the amount the client is paying you (you're a business after all), but what if both are on the same package? Where does the priority go? If they come back to you later and say, well i paid the same as that guy, but he's getting twice as much traffic as me, what do you say?
JOAT :)
