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What really matters, of course, is how well one does on the search terms surfers use most often. Here I observe great variation between engines.
For MSN, if there are no featured and LookSmart, it could be the same with Inktomi's listings coming first, but the first Ink listing could be pages down if a lot of LS listings come first.
The big boys certainly can -- a search for "Google" has www.google.com come up 1-1-1 on those engines.
Hey, I don't have much trouble getting a #1 ranking for my company name either; does that make me a "big boy?" :)
As to the original question, are you talking about the same page getting the same #1 ranking for the same search query ("keywords")? I guess it'd be possible (taking into consideration Marcia's point about Yahoo's directory listings and MSN's paid placements) but generally Inktomi's results (what you'd find at MSN) are quite different from Google's... so it'd be a challenge for any competitive search term.
Good point, Jay. Basically, you can optimize a specific page for Inktomi, but for Google it's broader, across the whole site, though interior pages can do fine.
For something broad - say hot dogs - you can rank #1 for a site with both, but if you're #1 and there are 8 pages of LookSmart listings for hot dogs, the #1 Ink listing on the 9th page won't do much good. However, a page on "hot dog stands in Milwaukee" won't be buried because it won't have the competition to buck.
This is an awesome list with lots of activity.
I've been on a couple of groups before I got to this one, as SEO is a new subject to me, but am learning quickly, so bear with me everyone while the baby learns to walk....
I guess I could post the search keywords without revealing too much to potential competitors.
"somecitynamehere real estate"
I have the domain name is the company name is the site name, so I feel pretty confident that once either the Clickthrough popularity or the Link to popularity is built, then I can be #1 for Yahoo.
I won't be using the paid listings for MSN, just the usual overture $0.15 per click fee, and then once all that is set, then pay the spider submission fee for google ($40 last time I checked.)
Luckily some bigger company will link to my page, but make no mistakes here, this is for a small business (2 people....one of them is me)...I just don't want to give people the impression that some corporate geek finally got the clue to listen in on newsgroups.
( after rambling) .... my point is, for the particular city, the search terms are not yet extremely competitive.
I think with the right direction, I could get this site with the "big boys" and ranked #1 in all three.
Thanks again everyone for the responses and making me feel welcome.
then pay the spider submission fee for google ($40 last time I checked.)
Is that really what you meant to say? There is no submission fee at Google. You can submit for free, or just wait for the aggressively-spidering googlebot to find your site via a link.
It will cost you an editing fee, but you can fine-tune your description and title to place well.
And with Overture PPC prices way up there, .15 is a real bargain!
>It will cost you an editing fee
Last I looked that was free at the PPC engines.
>can fine-tune your description
Free at the PPC's too.
Free once again.
>.15 is a real bargain!
Not in my area.
If you are the only one on the web selling "Turqoise Widgets" and that is your main keyword(s), then you will probably do very well on all search engines.
However, if for example you sell adult oriented products and your main keywords are "SEX" or "NUDE" , you will have a VERY hard time getting #1 on all the search engines you listed.
In some cases, I'd rather pay the $49 fee to make a change - one that is well thought out, not just random guesswork - than pay clicks at $5 and up just because the changes are free. We have some sites that we haven't made changes to that work out just as well from the get go.
Understand this: I don't agree that LookSmart should charge for changes, however, it doesn't mean that their listings don't work. And in some cases, it IS worth $49 if a change will help.
With the new Auto Bid changes that have been made at Overture, were now watching some of our top keyphrases get maxed at $50 per click. Yes, $50 max bids! Granted, no one is actually paying that yet, but we have seen bids more than double today alone. While for several of those same keywords, the site comes up within the top 5 results from our LookSmart listing.
Once again, this may not be worthwhile for everyone or every keyword. Not all bids get that high. And of course, there are options other than Overture, but MSN is important to most SE efforts.
Each PPC has it's issues. All of the SE's are trying to make a buck. Consideration needs to made in regards to where the site needs to be listed and what budget is available to get it there.
I would definitely rank #1 in all sites if I had "naked real estate" as my keywords...lol.
No but really now, who is the guy that pays $50 per click. Give me those keywords, and tell me the engine, .... the malicious 11 year old in me wants to charge some big company $500 in 6 seconds.
Now I know why all the big boys are practicing bad accounting.....to hide those PPC fees.
We also have the option to go on a PPC, on average $1.00 US (via Lookmsart affiliations) and that also feeds Yahoo Australia. If we try and search on Yahoo.com it registers that our IP is hosted in Australia and gives Australian results first. So I guess our marketing dollars go a little further that our US parent Directories and Search Engines. ;)
Just need to focus on Google.
I'd love to see that. I've already had suggestions to bid at 49.99...but I figured I'd leave that to someone else. From other discussions, the thought is that Overture will change this new policy of exposing the max bids. Otherwise, I'll be best be hanging at #2 and 3 til this cools down. Eventually someone will bid at $49.99 and being number one will have become pretty expensive!
As for Inktomi: Agreed. We do both and in some instances our Inktomi listings rank better in MSN, while in others or LS listing does. Again, it depends on the strategy and budget.
Is there some way to see the competitiveness of your keywords in inktomi and LS individually?
That way get a good feel for what listing service to go with first.
As for budget... I wouldn't mind paying .15 per click, for looksmart listings, (because I can control how much I will spend each month ... max $ setting).
Can anyone suggest which one to start with first? Keep in mind I want to rank well in all three MSN, YH, and Google.....keeping in mind link to page ranking when starting my page, and the time to build links.
LookSmart is easy enough to see with the redirect URL from MSN and also by listing style. I have a harder time tracking my Inktomi listings, even though we get a simple click report from the company we submit through.
We've had very good luck in both the "old" and "new" versions of LookSmart. I can give you examples of where we have both a LS and Inktomi listing and in almost all cases, the LS listing appears first in MSN, and sometimes exclusively. Now does that mean that there's some weight paid to LS listings in MSN? I don't know.
With Inktomi, you can submit individual pages. That will certainly help if you have targeted information elsewhere on your site. LookSmart is a directory-style listing.
Again, it's back to budget. If you don't mind the .15 per click, go with LS. Being able to set monthly budgets is great if budget is a real issue. If you can afford both, do both. This way you can add some key pages with Inktomi.
I know I'll probably get verbally hit over the head for this one, but if I had to choose, our experience has been better with LookSmart. I would start there - and have successfully done so with several of our clients.
<Is there some way to see the competitiveness of your keywords in inktomi and LS individually? >
Yes, go to MSN, type in your keywords...
The LS listing is the first set "directory"
The Inktomi listing is the second set "web pages"
Do several variations on your keywords in the MSN search bar and there you will see how they rank with both LS and Inktomi (Simultaneously)
As for submission...and ranking well...
keep reading in these boards, as there is much to learn and the members here are all very helpful.
<Can anyone suggest which one to start with first?>
Sorry...can't help you with that question...maybe someone else can...